Ericka Duggan Webboard User Reg: 04-18-2010
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Loc: California
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For all the trainers on the board: Has anyone every been sued or investigated by animal service for correcting a clients dog in a class. My area is getting really purely positive and some people are really up set by corrections. I use positive training to teach add corrections when the dogs knows what to but is choosing not to. I also correct for social issues and marking ect. What is a mid correction to one person may be abuse to another. What grounds do they stand on with a waiver signed? How decides what is legal to do to a dog in training?
Are you in that situation now? or just asking about it?
Are you doing the training? Is it in class training? group training?
I'm not comfortable with other people correcting my dog and it pretty much only happens during sheepdog lessons. I wouldn't go to a group class where the trainer (ie, pretty much a stranger as far as my dog was concerned) would correct my dog.
Ericka Duggan Webboard User Reg: 04-18-2010
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Loc: California
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Just asking. I am a trainer and it is something I have begun to worry about after 11 years of training.I am also talking about pet dog training. This would apply for both a group class or private. For example if someone has a dog that jumps up or is eating rock I will demo the correction for that behavior with their dog when he is doing it so they know what to do. When I take my own dogs to training at seminars or privates for stock dog or agility work they get corrected if needed by who ever I am working with ( it is rare that my dog need a correction) My question is not if a trainer that is begin paid to work with a dog and teach the owner should give corrections but what the legal issue are if anyone has faced them. Who decided what is a harsh correction. Some trainers in my area would say that the free yuck training video clip that leerburg has is abuse.
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005
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Loc: North-Central coast of California
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Quote: Ericka Duggan
My question is not if a trainer that is begin paid to work with a dog and teach the owner should give corrections but what the legal issue are if anyone has faced them. Who decided what is a harsh correction. Some trainers in my area would say that the free yuck training video clip that leerburg has is abuse.
I am going to make a guess that there could be liability issues unless you have a careful contract and also never err on the side of a correction that would raise general public opinion against you. That combination should cover normal corrections, I would think.
eta
For example, if the descriptions in your contract of possible corrections are careful, and the contract is signed, AND those corrections would not prejudice the general population to such an extent that even the owner's permission was not sufficient to protect the trainer from intervention, then lawsuits should be pretty much guarded against. JMHO, though.
Edited by Connie Sutherland (09/15/2011 09:20 PM)
Edit reason: eta
Ericka Duggan Webboard User Reg: 04-18-2010
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Loc: California
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I guess you can never be to sure these days. That is why we have insurance. I just worry what this will do to training over all. In 2006 someone saw a trainer working a dog in a park with "multiple shock collars" I am not sure if it was a double receiver like leer burg sells or what. They called animal control and Peta. The woman was taken to court and faced 364 days in jail and $2,500 fine. The judge drooped the charges due to lack of evidence but wow. I know there are parts of Europe that have outlawed e-collars across the board. I believe in balanced training and it is discouraging to see the trend in my area of purely positive. And thinking that anyone correcting a dog will be considered "abusing it" I do rescue work and see A LOT of the purely positive "drop out" Some owners I can convince to keep and work with the dog after a short demo with it, other are out of money and patents.
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005
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Loc: North-Central coast of California
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If you mean the same case that was much discussed here in June of '06, it was multiple e-collars, on neck, midsection, and genitals. One of the dogs was a Bichon, as I recall, one another breed (I forget what breed), a nine-week-old puppy.
I didn't read any opinions here that were in favor of that "trainer." (As I recall, the story was in the Chicago Tribune.)
JMO, but the case I mean (which, again, may be completely unrelated to the one you refer to), while tainted (to me) by the involvement of PETA, was pretty bad.
I don't know if you mean the same case, though. Probably not. There was no question in the one I mean about actual multiple e-collars on different parts of the body.
And also of course, that isn't at all in the same category as the correct use of a remote collar.
Ericka Duggan Webboard User Reg: 04-18-2010
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Loc: California
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Wow! It was not the case and that sounds horrible. This person was in AZ. A former client drove out to CA to train with me while it was happening. Her sister is a client of mine. There dog was a german shepherd and I believe the dog being "abused" was a Rottie. I believe that was in 2006 but that was a while back so maybe I am off a year.
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