Quote:

Lazy state of mind? Psshhhht. Does not exist in my darn brindle beast. Hyper vigilant, YES, always!

Here's a question then - have you ever trained for it?

I'd bet it would still work though. You just have capture and reward calm for HIM! And then build on that.

One of the ways Kipp begs for something is laying calm on the floor with his head between his paws, because I taught him that laying calm gets rewarded. Kenzi can be wriggling around for something and he is just laying there calm and cool.

You train focus, you build and direct drive, you can train calm, too.

Dogs become what you expect them to become. Yeah, I know this is a bit simplified in light of the differences in drive/energy from breed to breed but it also true for just about every dog (taking into account of course for your dogs individual exercise/training/work needs etc)

EX - I recently hear about an ACD mix. When this dog went for walks with the husband, she was constantly grabbing sticks for him to throw, on edge, sharp, waiting for the next thing to do. When the dog went on walks with the wife she was fairly relaxed, and just meandered along.

Now I've never had anything higher energy than a BC so I'm sure I could be missing something. But I do think that just about any dog can be taught to be calm provided that it's needs are being met. Yeah, it's far easier for some dogs, but if one trains for and expects calm I think one can get it.

Not picking on you Kelly And you do know your dog better than anyone! Just pointing out that calm is something that often can be effectively trained in high energy dog. If we train for it and expect it!

Tee-hee on the vigilant Dutch shepherd. Have one of my own in this house.

However, I do agree about the calm that can be achieved. When enough got to be enough with his "vigilant opinions" (yeah...we'll call it that), I started giving him an incompatible behavior: "down." Worked good (for a few seconds) until he realized, "Hey, I can still verbalize my opinion while in a down."

Okay, smart ass: "Put your head down." Can't have too much of an opinion, verbally or physically, like that.

Then I started marking that behavior when I would just find him doing it--sometimes with rapid fire--as reinforcment.

Now he often offers the behavior if he starts to feel (or begins to express) a "viligent opinion."

LOVE incompatible behaviors, especially as an exclamation point when they just find it a little too hard to do the right thing.

Sharon,
What exactly do you mean by using incompatible behaviours? Is it about asking them to do a task they're trained for, that uses a different energy to the one they are choosing to use, eg, jumping around, v/s down?

 Quote: Mara Pacers

How can I communicate that we are in "training mode" as opposed to "quietly amuse yourself and leave me alone" mode?

What are you giving your pup to do during the times that you want her?

With my pup, now about a year and a half, I always gave him something like a bully stick, elk antler, or other chewy to keep him occupied during times where I wanted him to relax. Worked great...kept him busy for a few minutes and allowed me to do something like use the bathroom lol.

To this day, he will hunt up his antler if he is bored and I am otherwise occupied. He grabs it, lays down, chews for a minute and usually falls asleep!

I have three working line GSDs all sleeping in my living room right now, even though I worked all day and they pretty much got no exercise. They know what is expected of them and I hope they understand that it was a long week, but tomorrow is Saturday!

P.S. Puppies are EXHAUSTING! And it takes awhile to find that routine

Fairness (and eventual success) in training is always dictated by knowing that an animal (not just dogs) knows what is expected of them, so using an incompatible behavior requires that the animal understands whatever incompatible behavior is being asked of them first. When using incompatible commands, make sure that the requested behavior is solid...otherwise, confusion for the animal reigns.

Requiring an incompatible behavior, first, makes it more difficult for the animal to continue the unacceptable behavior. What follows will result in either a conditioned response or an avoidance in pursuing the unacceptable behavior because they don't like the consequence, which is the imcompatible behavior. (My experience--and this speaks only toward the problem animals I adopt to make them part of the family--not toward shaping behaviors for any sport.)

I don't think of it as part of "normal" training, but have used it as a tool to drive a point home (exclamation point!).

You have a young dog. I wouldn't think of this is a tool for you right now. (Unless I've forgotten how young your dog is...?)

The example that you used (jumping around versus down): I can't speak toward pups, but with problem adults, I have employed avoidance (they don't exist, turn your back and give no attention until they've settled--they're too excited to want to focus on a command, and if you do give them one, they are getting the attention they want, not the message you want to send them). This can be used, with the layering of other fundamentals of training, to produce an animal who immediately downs when you come home--with "toes behind the line" (even though they're jumping out of ther skin) and don't budge until they are released--and they do not jump up on you--or the consequence is they get avoided, but they want your attention, but if they dont' get it because their behavior is producing the opposite effect they are looking for...).