I have been surfing the internet in my area for
White German Shepherd breeders. I was amazed that some where
charging extra money for a HD guarantee. I found this very
upsetting, Is this the norm? I would never buy from a breeder
that did this! I feel bad for the people that are suckered into
this. Buy the way not looking to buy I already have a wonderful
WGS.

Very often when you breed for 1 particular characteristic, ie: color, you sacrifice others. Hip quality can be one, as can others.

I have seen a number of white GSDs thru the years & most have had bad hips. Maybe coincidental...maybe not. I don't know. Many have had temperment issues, also. GSDs along with any large breed dog is more prone to HD. But again when you narrow down the breeding pool to keep something, like color, you are treading on a slippery slope as far as loosing sight of other quatlites like temperment & possibly overall health & soundness.

Not all breeders are as honest. If they think that they can get away with selling dogs with extra warrantees for extra cash....I guess that means that if there is a hip problem you are SOL without purchasing extra guarantees. Amazing that some people would fall for that.

Caviat emptur, as they say.

I wish that there was a like button

 Quote:

I was amazed that some where
charging extra money for a HD guarantee

It is not uncommon to discount a pup sold without health warranties and there are a lot of reasons for it. Often the breeder knows that they will not have another litter for a couple of years or is looking to stop breeding.

I have had buyers request it. They felt that the pup was their responsibility and they would not want a replacement pup if anything was wrong with the first one, or perhaps had had a bad experience with what they felt like was a breeder wiggling out of a warranty.

When I purchased my WGS puppy 4 years ago my intention was to
breed her but when her OFA prelim came back with a moderate HD
score I had her spayed. I did not get a HD quarantee and if I did
I would not have given her back. There I think lies the crux. I
had invested a great deal of time and money on puppy classes,
obedience classes, advanced classes , etc. I wish there was a way
to inform those wanting german shepherds or any large breed dog
to educate them regarding HD. My WGS's sire and dam were not white. Even my veteranarian's first remark when I brouhgt her in
for her puppy shots was "Are you going to breed Her?" Not don't
breed her unless she can be x-rayed for HD. Sorry I seem to be
rambling but this HD stuff really gets me anoyed.

HD can be a big problem for an owner, not to mention a heart breaker. Both in terms of dealing with & watching the discomfort in their dog. It can mean costly meds, some with very serious side effects, not to mention possibly career ending (for a working/sport dog) after 100s of hours & $$$s spent for training.

It is imperrative to see that the parents have been OFAd & also to look into past generations of dogs for HD problems. It is always a bit of a crap shoot with a puppy in many ways. All you can do is do your homework & purchase from reputable breeders that have OFAd & vetted their dogs.

Also their is a bit of owner responsibility regarding HD. Keeping pups on the thinner side, keeping exercise structured & not overdone in any way,no jumping over 6 inches for pups to a foot for older young dogs, no hard surface running or running until exhausted etc etc. These things will help give pups a good chance to get a solid unstressed skelletal system until their growth plates close. (at around 2 years old for GSDs).

You may get a white or black GSD from parents that are not either color. I believe that both are recessed genes..some dogs carry that gene & some do not. When breeding for these colors,breeders weed out, over time, the dogs that do not carry this gene & breed only those that do. In other words..they will take those white dogs or black dogs & breed them hoping they will produce that wanted color & so on down the line. Often with illregard for any health issues of these dogs.

I will say that when looking into breeders thru the years with the multiple pups that I have owned...no one ever offered me a 'discount' price for anything. Certainly not for any possible health issues. Nor did they ask me to pay more for any health guarantees. The price was the price...with the 'usual' health guarantees of overall general health & OFA passing at 2 years if age.

I will say that most breeders kinda expect that you will not return the dog, if there is an issue, even if the offer is there. I have only heard of some working dog folks often taking advantiage of the return & replace warrenty. But I am sure show folks do it also. Most pet owners don't. They are too attached by the time there is any problems, especially HD in which most often the signs don't show up until the dog is a year or 2 old.

 Quote: Betty Reavis

When I purchased my WGS puppy 4 years ago my intention was to
breed her but when her OFA prelim came back with a moderate HD
score I had her spayed. I did not get a HD quarantee and if I did
I would not have given her back. There I think lies the crux. I
had invested a great deal of time and money on puppy classes,
obedience classes, advanced classes , etc. I wish there was a way
to inform those wanting german shepherds or any large breed dog
to educate them regarding HD. My WGS's sire and dam were not white. Even my veteranarian's first remark when I brouhgt her in
for her puppy shots was "Are you going to breed Her?" Not don't
breed her unless she can be x-rayed for HD. Sorry I seem to be
rambling but this HD stuff really gets me anoyed.

HD can be a heart breaker and I do feel your pain. My Pepper has moderate to severe and it broke my heart because I had really, really wanted to breed her. I still look at her now and then and play the "I wonder game" sometimes because in so many ways she is an awesome dog.

Ironically she is an Aly grand daughter. Aly has one of the best records for hip production. Pedigree wise it just shouldn't of happened...

And environmentally it just shouldn't of happened. I followed all the rules for diet and exercise.

Luckily with supplements you wouldn't know it. At 8 years old she will still chase a ball until she dropped if she was given the choice.

HD is polygenetic. It is an unknown combination of genes that cause it. Even with all the elimination of dogs from the gene pool it is still a significant risk in pups that come from generations of xray'd and cleared dogs. The only way to eliminate that risk is to buy an older dog that has been cleared.

I do think people are becoming more and more educated to the genetics behind that cure little 8 week old puppy they are looking at. And I think the trend will continue and people will continue to do more and more research. The internet has been invaluable in that.

 Quote:

You may get a white or black GSD from parents that are not either color. I believe that both are recessed genes..some dogs carry that gene & some do not. When breeding for these colors,breeders weed out, over time, the dogs that do not carry this gene & breed only those that do. In other words..they will take those white dogs or black dogs & breed them hoping they will produce that wanted color & so on down the line. Often with illregard for any health issues of these dogs.

Correct. White and Black are both recessive genes, (well the white is actually a masking gene but still recessive) and the pup has to get one white or black gene from each parent in order to be that color. White has pretty much been culled out of the European lines. Bacall is a sable and carries the black recessive.

I always think how ironic it is that in a breed where sable is the dominant gene the vast majority of registered dogs are black and tan........