Hi, everyone long time no see. I have started working with my dobe in narc detection with scentlogix (meth), and doing an aggressive scratch indication. Originally i built a box much like a small skid but with less spacing out of 2 x 6's and 1 x 4's.

it was working great until he started realizing he could physically lift the boxes (which are fairly heavy) and grab the reward on his own without having to scratch for very long or at all and if i go to step on it too soon obviously he will cue on that.

My question is does anybody have possible solutions to this problem, or are there plans for better made boxes out there? I know they have the redline or eliteK9 boxes for $120 a piece, but I'm doing this for the experience and I'm not yet working for an agency so money is a factor.

I have thought of placing it all on sheets of plywood, but i would like to be able to place it all in my truck and take it to the school where I work/train. As well perhaps given my circumstances i should think about a passive alert?

Any ideas are welcome

Rob

Rather than allow the dog to get the reward from the box, throw it to him. Only pay the response you want. It's a lot easier to prevent bad habits than correct them. He just needs to learn to scratch to get the reward. Passive or aggressive response is more a matter of personal preference in drug work. Either way, you only reward the response want. Anything else just causes problems such as you are having now.

DFrost

Thanks for you replay, sorry for the delay in my response.

The way i learned was to put the sack of pseudo inside a narc bag and putting that inside a towel or tug and use it as the reward.

Is your method like the one on Leerburg DVD, putting a bit of pseudo above the surface with a toy stashed beneath for teaching the scent and indication?

In the last couple days we have just been weighting the tops of the boxes and that has been working well, but i'm interested in learning more about your style too. If there a good resource or step by step on this forum or elsewhere?

Rob

 Quote: Robert Kirkwood

Thanks for you replay, sorry for the delay in my response.

The way i learned was to put the sack of pseudo inside a narc bag and putting that inside a towel or tug and use it as the reward.

Is your method like the one on Leerburg DVD, putting a bit of pseudo above the surface with a toy stashed beneath for teaching the scent and indication?

In the last couple days we have just been weighting the tops of the boxes and that has been working well, but i'm interested in learning more about your style too. If there a good resource or step by step on this forum or elsewhere?

Rob

I've never watched the Leerburg DVD so I couldn't say. Secondly, I don't use pseudo in any form. That aside, the process is really very simple and basic. First I train the dog to sniff the boxes by giving them their reward through the hole in the box. There is odor in the box the reward is produced from. I don't use scented toys, towels or tugs. In my opinion, odor is odor, the reward is the reward. As the dog begins to show it understands he must check the box to obtain the reward, I introduce a second and a third box. Normally I like to work a 5 box choice, one of which will have the target odor. As the dog demonstrates to me that it is now understanding what is going on, by sniffing the boxes on his own and visually expecting a reward when it finds the one with the odor, I introduce the response. Basically, the steps are;

1. teach dog to sniff box, reward when it does.

2. introduce additional boxes, reward when dog sniffs box with odor.

3. when dog can sniff a 5 box variable and anticipate the reward when it sniff the box with the odor, I introduce the response.

4. at this point, the dog will only recieve the reward after it's given the final response.

Very simple, very basic.

DFrost

Very interesting, thanks for your patience and I appreciate the step by step. I am very green on this subject but it is also my favorite aspect of dog training at the moment.

Im going to run this by my boss/training director and see what he thinks, our local PD does it the way i stated. however I want to find explore all the options.

A few additional questions if you don't mind.

1. do you use a specific type of box for this work?

2. do you keep one box for the target odor and the rest are distraction boxes or do you switch which box its in?

currently we just switch box positions, because the contact scent seems to through the dog off if we place the odor in different boxes.

thanks again!

Rob

 Quote: Robert Kirkwood

Very interesting, thanks for your patience and I appreciate the step by step. I am very green on this subject but it is also my favorite aspect of dog training at the moment.

Im going to run this by my boss/training director and see what he thinks, our local PD does it the way i stated. however I want to find explore all the options.

A few additional questions if you don't mind.

1. do you use a specific type of box for this work?

2. do you keep one box for the target odor and the rest are distraction boxes or do you switch which box its in?

currently we just switch box positions, because the contact scent seems to through the dog off if we place the odor in different boxes.

thanks again!

Rob

I've tried to find a picture of the boxes I use, they really are very simple. Basically, it is a 8 x 8 inch cube, that sits on top of a 12 x 12 inch cube. The 12 inch cube has a hole in the top. The 10 inch cube sits on top of the hole. There is a hole large enough in the back of the 10 inch cube to put your hand in and push the reward to the top for the dog to get. The odor goes in the bottom cube where the dog can not reach it. I make mine out of 1/2 inch plywood. Sorry about the description, but I just can't seem to find a picture.

Yes, I use a separate box for each odor. When I train with boxes I only do one odor at a time. There would be 4 blank boxes that might contain various distractors, ie plastic bags etc and one box for an odor.

I only use boxes to imprint odor. Once a dog has learned the odor I move on to more realistic scenarios. I measure whether or not the dog has learned the odor, by requiring 20 consecutive, unassisted positive responses using a 5 box variable. The handler is not told which is the positive box. When a dog has reached this proficiency level on all four drug odors, we are done with boxes and on to more realistic training.

You can build the boxes very easily for a few dollars a piece if you have a table saw, a drill and either a hole saw or a hand held jig saw.

DFrost