Quote: Luzelle Cockburn

LOL exactly... The Michael Ellis DVDs were the best investment I ever made so I really don't like other people running his methods, that do work, down.

Work .... AND, when done right, result in a happy, eager-to-train dog!

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Luzelle Cockburn

LOL exactly... The Michael Ellis DVDs were the best investment I ever made so I really don't like other people running his methods, that do work, down.

Work .... AND, when done right, result in a happy, eager-to-train dog!

Same goes for Susan Garrett.

I actually love both SG and Michael Ellis and own most of the DVDs from both.

The OP seems to feel that since SG's methods didn't work for her or a few people she knows, they can't possibly work at all. Personally, I have never had any issues applying SG's methods in my agility training, an area of training where I don't use any punishment at all.

IMO, there is no need to bash trainers or to be jealous of their success. As I said before, SG knows that there is a market out there of people willing to pay $ to be "test subjects" for her running contact method. I'm pretty sure those people are all repeat students of her's and that they will be very happy with their experience. If everyone is satisfied, I really don't see what the issue is.

Steve, I am missing so much. Dog training is the most difficult subject I've attempted in my life. I've only been working at it for about 8 years now and I feel like I am just scratching the surface. What I am after is a deep, fundamental understanding of how to communicate with and motivate dogs. I want to understand how they think. It is fascinating to me how different breeds and dogs differ and how they are similar.

Specifically, I am struggling with becoming successful in competitive obedience. I am great at teaching the overall exercises, but I am not successful at teaching the precision. My scores in Open are in the low to mid 190's and in Utility I have a poor track record of qualifying. I have much more I need to learn.

Robin Clark
Cincinnti, OH

I have friends who train with or have trained with Michael. They always share good ideas and can explain it to me so I'm sure you'd enjoy training with him. One thing about competition Robin, don't forget about the dog. Nobody wins without the right dog.

If someone wants to pay 5 grand to go to this seminar that is their deal. Free market enterprise and all that. Different trainers for different people <shrug> For instance, while I enjoyed Diane Bauman's book I would not spend money going to her seminars etc for various reasons that I will not get into on this list. Let's just say she ain't a favorite of mine ;-)

With that said, she has obviously helped you Robin and that makes her worthwhile for you and your checkbook and others who share your opinion of her. I am sure there are people out there that either choose to overlook the issues mentioned here regarding Susan Garrett or do not think the issues exist because her style of training has been successful for them and/or they enjoy working with her. Perhaps for them 5K is worth it.

For me it is like people charging 3K+ for puppies. Some people are willing to pay that amount on a gamble that the puppy is going to turn out. For myself, I think it is batsh*t crazy to drop several thousand dollars on a puppy. But at the end of the day it is their money and if they want to spend it in such a fashion so be it.

I do not see that this is going to create a situation where seminar fees are raised outrageously. The backlash on the web regarding this pricing shows that the vast majority of people believe this fee is unrealistic.

What Ingrid said!