Your dog is fearful...don't let him fool you.
some dogs do tuck their tail...some don't.
others try to make themselves appear bigger than they are.

Stop pushing the dog by trying to force him to accept you approaching him. You are only making it worse. This is not the time to start, as you said, "pushing his limits". This is the time to get him to trust you again.
You can't fix this in one day and you are pushing him too much by trying to do too much at once.


Im not sure you have to stop playing as that doesn't seem to be what caused him to become fearful. Too much touching did.

 Quote: Wendy Lefebvre

Your dog is fearful...don't let him fool you.
some dogs do tuck their tail...some don't.
others try to make themselves appear bigger than they are.

Stop pushing the dog by trying to force him to accept you approaching him. You are only making it worse. This is not the time to start, as you said, "pushing his limits". This is the time to get him to trust you again.
You can't fix this in one day and you are pushing him too much by trying to do too much at once.


Im not sure you have to stop playing as that doesn't seem to be what caused him to become fearful. Too much touching did.

From this post, from Betty's post, from other posts,. please internalize this: STOP! Stop testing, stop "pushing limits," stop forcing more touching than he is comfortable with, stop doing so much to this stressed anxious dog.

STOP: "pushing the dog by trying to force him to accept you approaching him."

The prong collar, the whole thing with the mother and sister, everything reinforces to the max the very first thing that came up (from more than one person): way too many people who should not be involved ARE involved.

PS
Did you start the early-morning exercise so that you leave a tired dog when you go to work?

PPS
If you would slow way down (read Betty's post again ..... believe me, that's a brief recap of weeks of work she did), you will be paid off in spades. Sloooooooow down.

 Quote: Betty Landercasp

I just want to encourage you, with change you CAN come out the other side with a dog that loves you and that you are proud of.

I did the aloof bit for 2 wks. Not mean, no corrections, but my guy had to suck up for even a look from me. Working at my desk, my attitude was, "Is there a dog here? I don't see any dog." And I was extremely careful with "touch" because in discussions with knowing Forum members it became clear that my guy really didn't like to be touched so much. When I did touch him it was on the chest only and not looming over him. . No big excitement when we would greet after a time apart. HE'S the one whose supposed to be excited, if I'm excited I'm acting like I'm a puppy and he's the grown-up.
Outside he'd be leashed and "along for the ride". Occasionally I'd put my hand down with a delicious treat in it. No touch, no sweet talk. THe first few days I didn't even feed him except from my hand. I didn't touch him, just handed him food.
After about 2 wks of this he was different. Now he's great. Most of the changes were mine, upping the leadership, down with praise for nothing, down with "nitpicking" corrections. I quit doing things he didn't like and he quit doing things I didn't like. I made our relationship "professional", and it has grown.

I don't want this to get lost here. This dog was hand-shy, anxious about touching and eye contact, and anxious about a previous war over an up-close at-home medical application. Many of his anxieties were similar to your dog's, and you have to add serious over-corrections to the mix (IMO).

Betty went at a snail's pace with what she describes above. It worked.

I would follow the suggestions you are getting here and I'd keep the rest of the family out of the mix as much as you possibly can, even if it means getting up an hour earlier and coming home for a lunch-time walk.

I'm glad you posted, Michel!

A lot of good people are giving you excellent suggestions.

this is great!
i m going to stick with everything you said and not overwhelm myself with extra information.

last time Karly had a chronic diarrhea problem and it spread over 16pages for 2 months time and frustrated everyone.

I already have much more than i need and i thank you so much for all the feedback and help!

to sum things up:
A. 1st 2 weeks or so:
1. taking it slow and acting as aloof as i can
2. barely any touch & no sweet talk – no forcing contact
3. no greeting excitement
4. outside it s my trip and he s tagging along
5. rare treats. hand fed
6. no praise for nothing
7. moving away from tense situations
8. more exercise (i managed to wake up earlier btw and tethered him all day even at the office – donno how long i can keep that up though)
9. professional relationship
10. never stepping away from a fearful situation but sticking to it till the dog understands it s ok and there s nothing to fear
11. not reacting to the dogs growls and putting him in a seated position if possible and wait till he calms down
12.(if time permits it, hand feeding the meal creates big trust apparently – not sure i have the time to do that, i can insert it in obedience after the aloof phase instead of feeding him his meals)
13. staying as isolated as possible till i earn his trust
14. NO TESTING

feel free to add points if there s something i missed.


you can also check out this very interesting article which sums up handling fear based aggression. great insight:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cts=1331751388105&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblackbeltdogtraining.com%2Farticles_dogtraining%2Ffearbasedaggression1.pdf&ei=1-lgT5CIGcPPhAeqs_W3Bw&usg=AFQjCNFPP-p54Wl6ZXQJc8a0k4EwZSzFCQ

could you comment on the following?

 Quote: michel karsouny

"it was raining so i had to dry him with a towel.
I was mainly drying his back so he growled and had all the hair on his back come up.
I said "it s ok" and kept on drying. more gently. then dropped the towel when he calmed down and petted him very softly on his back for a couple of minutes. his ears were lowered but he was a bit tense. Released him afterward with a calm "good boy"

(i had seen cesar milan do this. so no "NO" but instead showing the dog that he s safe and he doesnt have to worry and that i dont mean him any harm). Cesar held the dog firmly instead though till he calmed down but karly was leashed well and blocked with my leg so i think i pulled it off right."

Thanks so much gang. i ll update you soon in tiny bits

I know the other folks giving their time here will go over your list; I just wanted to say (nicely) that you're not Cesar Millan (and neither am I!).

I like and admire him enormously, but I also think most of the people doing what they see him do so well are (1) extrapolating, and no longer in context, and (2) over their heads. And I mean this NOT to be insulting to you, Michel. To me, it's a really broad statement I'm making.

No cesar Milan Tricks!!!

They don't work for the average dog owner!

no pushing
and make sure to remember this is not a quick fix.
Slow & staedy will win this race.
And although he may be putting on a tough show, he is doing this out of a fear reaction.
I don't get a sense from what you are writing that this dog is testing his limits with you. Avoidance (running from you etc.) is not something a dog trying to move up would do.

as for the towel issue...we can't really give you an answer to that as we don't know how you were towel drying him, what position he was in, what position you were in etc etc.

Marker training helped my dog. Lots of marker training.