i have a nice dogtra e-collar that i use with my GSD. i sometimes have trouble getting good contact between the leads.

i already purchased longer leads which have helped a little, but still have the same issue sometimes.

does anyone have any tips for attaching this thing better? i don't want to tighten it too much because i already feel like it's so tight it must almost impair his breathing. i try to go by ed's "two fingers" rule (should be able to fit 2 fingers inside the collar).

someone told me "why dont you just buzz a little part of his neck hair?" sounded like a terrible idea to me, since the thing seems to move while he's wearing it anyway so what good would it do to cut part of his hair really short?



any tips anyone? is it as simple as just making it much tighter? any help appreciated as always!

I swapped collars with my old TriTronics. The Dogtra collar is so smooth and slick compared to the Tritronics, I can leave it just a little looser and it stays in place. Maybe you can order one from Tritronics, they're the same size, its just not as slick.

I ordered the Einstein 400 about a month ago and had the exact same problem. I found that the two finger rule was too loose. I can slip one finger between the collar and dog without any adverse effects to my dog. I also trimmed a little bit of hair on her neck. The area is so small you can't notice it by eye and would barely find it if you were petting her.

I hope this helps.

Brian

If the collar is moving around on the dog's neck it is too loose. It should stay in place. If it moves around it will irritate the dogs neck.

To make better contact...push & hold the hair away while you drag the 'points' on the neck into place before tightening collar strap. You can also 'wiggle' the collar after in place to help get it in proper position/contact. This will allow the 'points' to actually lay against the skin making proper contect.

Sometimes very thick coated dogs need to have the hair clipped to make better consistant contact.

Love the Dogtras, great collars.

I've got pretty thick coated dogs as well and never needed to shave anything yet.

What I've found, and this could just be my imagination, but not only do they get collar wise, knowing the different collars and types of the things they get to do with each, they also get "collar putting on wise" with the e-collars. I'm sure they have an ability to puff up that upper portion of their necks, just little a bit, somehow.

What works best for me is having them in a stand and looking straight up at me, stretching their neck so that less puffing action can occur.

As well, I put them on a good 10 - 15 minutes before we head out. Checking and double checking before we leave, ensuring everything is snug and all lights flashing.

I wouldn't worry too much about cutting off their breathing. The snug two finger rule is a good one. We hike for hours with them on (and swim and bike and train) and I've never noticed any kind of shortness of breath due to the collar.

Also, they're in the same position when I take them off as they were when I put them on.

I think the thought of the tight fit being painful is more of a people thing. Sure, cinching something up fairly tight like that would be noticeable to the dog but as for painful, I really don't think that is the case.

Once they're on, my guys don't seem to notice them at all. They're certainly not bothered or hindered by them in any way. And there's a mad dash to the utility room when they hear me unplugging them, they can't wait to get them on.

I'd try cinching it up an extra notch or two and just make sure those two fingers can get in there.

Hey, just thought about something. Everyone's got different size fingers; mine are way smaller than my husbands. I wonder if that might make that iota of connection difference.

And in our house, hubby does not put the e-collars on, that's my job. He has them looking much Mr. Harris' choke chains. He's great at changing the batteries though.

i have a couple more questions based on the above very helpful responses (thanks everyone):


1. what's everyone's position on "testing" your placement after you put on the collar? on one hand i want to make sure i got good contact and the dog is getting the nick, but on the other hand i don't want to buzz him without provocation, for a number of reasons. sometimes i give him some commands hoping that he misses one or delays so i have a reason to test it, but most of the time he's so amped up to go out and play that he's sharp as a tack when i first put it on. is there a way to test it out before going outside while still being fair to the dog?

2. where exactly do you do your "2 finger" test? i have noticed that when i have the collar on pretty tight, i can still get 2 fingers into the side of it easily, but it's much more difficult to get fingers into the top of the loop. that's because, due to the placement and shape of the leads, the collar ends up taking more of an oval shape and being stretched vertically. so, as long as i can get 2 fingers in *somewhere*, is that ok?

I use the 'pager' 1x to check their responce. Since I have used that all along as a just pay attention to me type of thing it works for me so that I can 'test' it. My dog just flick an ear or blink an eye & then look at me. So I know that it is working. If you're collar doesn't have a 'pager/vibration' feature, I would test by setting the nick very very low & look for the slightest eye blink or ear flick...obviously way below what would be that dog's 'working' level. I would be very careful in doing this,based on the tempermemt & level of training & age of your dog. (I have the dogtra 1700 NCP & 1702 NCP /2 dog collars)

I would just stick my fingers in the top part of the collar after I have tightened it. Actually I have been using one for so many years so I rarely bother to 'check' it any more. I just know on each dog where to tighten it.But that's just me. If you are not sure you should check it each time. I have the longest probes on my collars. Think they are 1 3/4 or 2 in. Can't remember.

I've also been using them for a long time and I think you'll get a lot more comfortable with it the more you use it.

I paid close attention to what I was doing yesterday and there's a certain yank and tightness that you can just feel when you get to know the collar.

Checking the two finger rule, if needed, like Anne, I do it at the top or the side without the prongs. There's definitely a difference where the prongs sit and not reflective at all of the rule. Under the neck doesn't seem reflective to me either with the different ways the hide moves, or maybe that little bit of extra skin.

As far as testing, I think that may be part of my appreciation for the dogtra collars. Having gone thru the initial training with my boys, to get their levels figured out, trained with them and using them pretty much on a daily basis, once they're on properly and all green lights are go, I just "know" and "trust" these collars. I haven’t done any pre-trip testing in a long time.

But when and if I need to, I'll often stick my hand in there, grab the collar and hit the vibrate. I get a strange look that's always rewarded and I’m right there with them, with my hand strangely in the collar. I don't think it dilutes anything as I'm not giving them a command and they're getting rewarded, by me, right close to me for the sensation.

In training or out hiking, a vibrate always follows a known command that hasn't been executed quickly enough, with the next step being the stim (which I must say, I haven't needed for a long time). So with no commands being given, them looking at me strangely and getting rewarded, I'm sure that's what they think needs to happen to get the reward and "turn off" the process. Works for me, I love the "look" and testing accomplished, I can feel they are working.

I know, strange, but it's the way I check and my thought process, which again, is much like Anne's, with them just paying attention.

And if you're simply trying to figure out his levels, Anne also gave a good description of the ear flinch/blink. Once you get his flinch level figured out and are consistent with putting the collar on the same tightness each time, I think you'll start to get a lot more comfortable without the need for all the pretesting.

As most things do, these collars require just as much of a learning process for us as they do for the dog (if not more) and you'll gain a lot of comfort with that experience.

thanks for the great and insightful responses. appreciated as always


i'm frustrated because i feel like i'm just not getting good prong contact in the first place. he has so much hair that even when i really focus on getting the hair out of the way and sticking the leads through, i'm still convinced half the time that he's not getting contact and won't get a stim if i need to. today i did try a pre-test nick once, on a level 20 (out of 127), and he didn't even move. i didn't want to turn it up any higher than that because i don't want to rock the dog for no reason, but i just get frustrated when i'm not sure whether i have contact and i can't check it without bothering him.

he's very well behaved, so i've really just been using this as a safety precaution lately in case he notices a rabbit or something and takes off across a street without thinking. so even though i doubt i'll have to use it, i NEED it to work if he decides to do something dumb and my initial recall doesn't work immediately.

If he's not responding at 20, then 21 is not going to rock him. And if he's not flinching at 21, 22 is not going to rock him, etc, etc. All dogs are different, his working level may be 30.

Have you done the flinch work and you're seeing different results?

Any chance of posting a picture of your fuzz ball with it on?

Here's a picture of my fluffy monkey. This is his winter coat and it's THICK, especially around his neck. I'd even go so far as to say he gets a bit of mane. I'm sure he’s part lion.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv210/wolfpup2227/ecollar.jpg

He's a fairly big boy with a big neck and notice the strap of the e-collar (pretty much all you can see because of ALL his hair) but look at all the collar left over. It's tight. And trust me, the last thing he's thinking about in this picture is the collar on his neck.

I keep his level at 30, his working level is at around 28 but if I even have to think about using it these days, I want it to make an impact. And that impact would simply be because he blew off a command he knows, nothing that he's learning. I very rarely teach anything with them (many people do) but for me it's simply an off leash connection to ensure commands are followed thru with.

But a ton of training went into the commands beforehand and even more after he wore it for two weeks without even turning it on.

Something like access to chasing a rabbit in an area without a leash would have never crossed my mind to allow before he had a decent recall.

And even then I gradually upped the distractions, without the e-collar, while training it. When I was confident he was racing back to me mid stride, is when I felt he was ready for off leash with the e-collar.

Then he slowly learned the powers of the collar and mom's magical connection.

But again, it's just a collar, not a magical tool and these guys can be pretty determined animals when that prey drive kicks in.

You want to make sure your training and relationship are well established before you put any kind of trust, let alone some life threatening scenario, solely in the hands of this tool.