steve strom Webboard User Reg: 03-17-2006
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Quote: Bob Scott
After reading the article that Ana posted I can only say yes....but
Obviously food is a survival necessity as opposed to toys but both my dogs will leave their food in a heartbeat if I pulled out a tug. Food would "possibly" carry a higher value if the dogs were very hungry but being fed twice a day wouldn't seem to carry the theme of the article. Using food as a training reward get a nice performance from my dogs but using their tug gets a very high energy level performance. How does this happen if food has such high value.
The food over toy may apply for the average house dog that doesn't have the high drive for a toy or tug.
The article is confusing because we're all focused on the object itself, the food, the toy. I've had it explained to me now and the way to read it is, its what we do with the food vs the toy. Its what we CREATE by concentrating so much on obedience with the food at the expense of the lasting relationship you can build with PLAYING. Instead of weighing all that foundation work so much towards obedience with food, even though its a positive, rewards based 'system' it can become a boring, nag on a dog after a time.
I think its really just a balance that doesnt always come accross with videos etc...how important just playing, exploring and those things are in relation to the structured obedience.
What the article, I think, means for you Carol, is put away the food and forget formal ob for a little while. Play WITH him and make that matter most.
After reading the article that Ana posted I can only say yes....but
Obviously food is a survival necessity as opposed to toys but both my dogs will leave their food in a heartbeat if I pulled out a tug. Food would "possibly" carry a higher value if the dogs were very hungry but being fed twice a day wouldn't seem to carry the theme of the article. Using food as a training reward get a nice performance from my dogs but using their tug gets a very high energy level performance. How does this happen if food has such high value.
The food over toy may apply for the average house dog that doesn't have the high drive for a toy or tug.
The article is confusing because we're all focused on the object itself, the food, the toy. I've had it explained to me now and the way to read it is, its what we do with the food vs the toy. Its what we CREATE by concentrating so much on obedience with the food at the expense of the lasting relationship you can build with PLAYING. Instead of weighing all that foundation work so much towards obedience with food, even though its a positive, rewards based 'system' it can become a boring, nag on a dog after a time.
I think its really just a balance that doesnt always come accross with videos etc...how important just playing, exploring and those things are in relation to the structured obedience.
What the article, I think, means for you Carol, is put away the food and forget formal ob for a little while. Play WITH him and make that matter most.
!!!DING DING DING, WE HAVE A WINNER!!!
With food as a reward the handler can become nothing more then a dispenser. The dog has it's reward and the handler now becomes less important in the game. With a tug the handler becomes a big part of the reward because of the interaction with the tug. In that case the tug is not so much a reward but a PART of the reward created by that interaction.
I've always felt that playing tug is a much more rewarding for the dog because of that interaction with the handler. A ball can be a close second "IF" the dog has a tremendous retrieve drive.
How many times have ALL of us told someone that is working too hard for compliance to relax and enjoy playing with dog.
Carol Blumlein Webboard User Reg: 03-29-2012
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To Bob and Steve:
BINGO!! IT WORKED!
Today I began watching ME video on Advanced Concepts in Motivation. I have the tug video, but there are some very detailed points here I couldn't get in the Power of Playing Tug. In spite of having to"modify" some of the footwork drills due to a knee that needs replacing(too many years of distance running) we had the best game of tug ever!
I decided to try what you suggested Steve, no commands just play. Sure enough, he began retreiving and returning the ball just like when he was a very young puppy. I never told him to sit or down or any command. Never needed 2 balls or anything.
He does sit or down and stare at me on his own with the ball when he wants to play, which is 99% of the time!
What's that James Stewart Christmas saying?!
When ever a trainer learns to play a puppy gets it's wings....Well, something like that.
Something more to add.
The puppy is now retrieving again. PLEASE remember to stop before the pup gets tired or bored. Leave it wanting more. Every time you go till the pup/dog is ready to quit you've taught it that it can.
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Re: food or toy rewards?
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