Ramachandran Subramanian wrote 05/02/2013 11:38 AM High rate of reinforcement Perch work with my dogs #377195 - 05/02/2013 11:38 AM
Ramachandran Subramanian Webboard User Reg: 08-02-2004 Posts: 809 Loc: Chennai, India Offline	All these years I have been training my dogs wrongly. I had no idea about the concept of rate of reinforcement. Either with shaping or capturing, I will wait for the dog to offer the desired behaviour or an approximation of the desired behaviour and then click. I was thinking it was the dog's duty to make me click. I read some research papers and realized that it was my duty to find as many clickable approximations as possible on the way to a desired behaviour ,rather than the dog's responsibility to make me click. Number of clicks per minute matter for the dog to have a fast learning curve.Did not know that till a few days back. Felt like an idiot and started from scratch with new behaviour - perch work Here are my babies doing their thing. Rate of reinforcement - perch work
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Duane Hull wrote 05/02/2013 01:12 PM Re: High rate of reinforcement Perch work with my dogs [Re: Ramachandran Subramanian ] #377204 - 05/02/2013 01:12 PM
Duane Hull Webboard User Reg: 09-23-2011 Posts: 2692 Loc: Marrero, LA Offline	Nice work, Ram! You may have missed it, but a month or two ago, we had a discussion on two slightly related threads about luring vs. free shaping. Though I had not read the papers you mention, I had learned some while back that luring was more beneficial to my training than was free shaping, as the dog gets a much clearer picture of what is expected, and, IMO, usually much quicker. Though I have not viewed the same materials as you, it seems that the principles that I had gathered mesh with what you have recently learned. Sadie
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Wendy Lefebvre wrote 05/02/2013 02:10 PM Re: High rate of reinforcement Perch work with my dogs [Re: Ramachandran Subramanian ] #377206 - 05/02/2013 02:10 PM
Wendy Lefebvre Webboard User Reg: 12-08-2005 Posts: 1271 Loc: Stoney Creek , Ontario, Canada Offline	Nice job! I think luring has it's place, and shaping has it's place. right now im trying to teach Tucker to smile on command, but it's not something I can teach by luring. I have to catch him doing it in order for him to connect the dots. Unless of course someone can give me an idea on luring that behaviour? Cause im having a very hard time with that trick for some reason. But i did teach him to sit up pretty by luring him into that position because there was no way I was going to be able to shape that behaviour because it's just not something a dog does in their daily routine. I do believe both methods have their place. IMO Don't complain....TRAIN!!!
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Cathy Goessman wrote 05/02/2013 07:08 PM Re: High rate of reinforcement Perch work with my dogs [Re: Wendy Lefebvre ] #377224 - 05/02/2013 07:08 PM
Cathy Goessman Webboard User Reg: 12-03-2007 Posts: 1231 Loc: Phoenix, AZ Offline	Quote: Wendy Lefebvre Nice job! Unless of course someone can give me an idea on luring that behaviour? Cause im having a very hard time with that trick for some reason. Lots of dogs will make weird faces with orange peels or other oily citrus. Maybe try it so you can mark it a little more often?
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Ramachandran Subramanian wrote 05/05/2013 01:51 AM Re: High rate of reinforcement Perch work with my dogs [Re: Cathy Goessman ] #377302 - 05/05/2013 01:51 AM
Ramachandran Subramanian Webboard User Reg: 08-02-2004 Posts: 809 Loc: Chennai, India Offline	Update: Here is our 3rd day of rear end awareness perch work. Bommi is a fast learner and she is doing much better than the rest. PERCH WORK DAY 3 BOMMI
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Connie Sutherland wrote 05/06/2013 10:23 AM Re: High rate of reinforcement Perch work with my dogs [Re: Ramachandran Subramanian ] #377382 - 05/06/2013 10:23 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Nice, Ram, Do you have a plan for fading out the lure? I agree with Wendy that shaping, luring, and targeting are all extremely useful ..... it depends on a lot of things, not least of which is what behavior I'm training and how familiar with the method(s) the dog is, and (in luring) the dog's level of self-control around food and my ability to fade out the lure. In shaping, I want to be proactive enough not to shut the dog down in frustration. For targeting, I want to get good at handling the things I have to handle fluidly (like the target and my bait bag), and for me, that means practicing without the dog. JMO, of course!. Nice thread, Ram!
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Ramachandran Subramanian wrote 05/06/2013 07:21 PM Re: High rate of reinforcement Perch work with my dogs [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #377429 - 05/06/2013 07:21 PM
Ramachandran Subramanian Webboard User Reg: 08-02-2004 Posts: 809 Loc: Chennai, India Offline	Day 4 Perch work progression I am still working on making the movement a familiar one for my dog. You can see in this new video , how much I am a hindrance to their learning, than a help. I seriously lack the skills and my dogs keep getting stuck (rather I keep getting stuck). Having said that, you can see a few attempts by my dogs where they do it with out a big gesture. So, how do I plan to fade the lure? I really amnot sure, but I will figure some thing along the way You can see in the video, whenever I get stuck , I lower the criteria for myself and start bigger gestures. I am hoping that after luring and after the dog knows the physical movement I require, I can start capturing it.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 05/08/2013 07:50 PM Re: High rate of reinforcement Perch work with my dogs [Re: Ramachandran Subramanian ] #377561 - 05/08/2013 07:50 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Ram, I started a "fading the lure" thread.
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uma deekshith wrote 05/13/2013 07:17 AM Re: High rate of reinforcement Perch work with my dogs [Re: Ramachandran Subramanian ] #377750 - 05/13/2013 07:17 AM
uma deekshith Webboard User Reg: 05-08-2010 Posts: 52 Loc: Offline	very intresting bro wish you could share the research papers with us
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Ramachandran Subramanian wrote 05/21/2013 11:58 AM Re: High rate of reinforcement Perch work with my dogs [Re: uma deekshith ] #378105 - 05/21/2013 11:58 AM
Ramachandran Subramanian Webboard User Reg: 08-02-2004 Posts: 809 Loc: Chennai, India Offline	PERCH WORK PROGRESSION WEEK 2 Here is a short video of how we have progressed with our rear end awareness.
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