Hello all! I'm new to this webboard and I've already learned so much from you all. Thank you! This is my first post and I have a ton questions. I'll try to consolidate.

I have a 9 mo old female GSD. I switched her to a raw diet about a month ago and she's doing great. She never had much appetite on kibble and always had intermittent diarrhea even though I tried three different high quality brands. Now she's a totally different dog, with tons of energy and CRAZY about mealtime! Yay!

Q1. Does anyone have experience feeding older chickens as RMB's? We just butchered a batch of 2 yo old laying hens to make room for the new ones. Store-bought chickens are usually only about 3 mos old or less at butchering so their bones are much softer. Our old birds are TOUGH! My dog, Jyll, chews and swallows them OK but I'm worried that she won't be able to fully digest them. I never gave much thought to the critics' claims that chicken bones could puncture the bowels until I saw sharp-looking pieces in her poop. I've also seen them in the occasional throw-up (hours after feeding, no retching, mostly digested).

Q2. Since I have access to the whole bird should I be feeding her EVERYTHING? The organs are an obvious yes. But what about the feet, the stomach, intestines, craw and all of their digestive contents, etc.? I read in the All Natural Diet for Dogs and Cats book that organs are rich and should not be fed every day. One of our birds is enough to supply 2 1/2 days of RMB's so theoretically I could divide all the guts and give her some every day (sorry, that sounds so gross...and it is!). But I don't know how much is too much and if the digestive contents are safe.

Q3. I learned on this site to feed 2-3% of the dog's body weight and up to 5% for growing puppies. I know my 9 mo old is not fully matured yet but she's not growing as quickly now as a young pup. Any suggestions on an appropriate weight percentage for her age? She always seems so ravenous but I was feeding her 5% and she seems to have put on some extra weight.

Q4. I'm confused about the percentage of organs and other added ingredients. If I'm feeding 2.5 lbs/day according to my weight percentage calculation, would I feed 10% of the 2.5 lbs as organs and 5% of it as vegies and other supplements? Or is it 2.5 lbs RMB/MM (50/50) PLUS the organs etc?

Q5. I've been letting her digestive system acclimate to her new diet (poops not yet perfected) so I haven't added supplements yet. But I've noticed that she now has dandruff. Do I just need to start adding the salmon oil and/or vit E oil? Our chickens have tons of skin and fat so I can't imagine that she's deficient in fats or vit E. Plus she's already getting raw eggs, beef and some plain yogurt.

Sorry for all the questions but I sure would appreciate advice from all you seasoned folks. Thanks again!

Q1. The older chickens shouldn't be a problem. But if you wanted to, you could give the leg bones a few whacks with a cleaver or hammer to smash them a bit. I've done this in the past with ducks and turkeys which also have much harder bones than store-bought chickens.

Q2. You can feed the feet for sure. (Or save them yourself to make soup!). I probably would not feed the digestive tract organs, unless you rinsed them of the fecal matter. While it probably wouldn't hurt a dog to eat it, That is the part of a chicken that is most contaminated with salmonella--so why risk it. There's not much potential food in chicken intestines anyway. If I were butchering, I'd just toss the intestines. Heart, gizzard, kidney--those of course are fine food.

Q3. 2-3% of the dog's ideal expected adult weight, regardless of age, is the math I use.

2.5 pounds of food a day would be right for a healthy 100 pound dog. Unless your female GSD is tremendously oversized, this seems like too much food. I'm guessing she would end up in the 50-70 pound range as a fit, trim adult. That would put daily food at: 1.25 - 1.75 pounds of food a day.

Q4. The total meal weight is everything, all in. So a 1.5 pounds-per-day diet (24 ounces a day) would include 2-ish ounces of organ, 1-ish ounces of other, leaving 21-ish ounces for your roughly 50/50 RMB/MM.

Q5. What are the poops like? My guess is they are soft--from overfeeding. Feeding too much can cause soft poop. The poops on this diet should be quite firm.

I would back up a step to get the poops firmed up on a just-chicken diet, with appropriate meal sizes. Then slowly add the new things, including the Salmon Oil AND (not or) vit. E. those are the only two supplements that I think are "musts."


http://s2.photobucket.com/user/luca-stl/library/Raw%20Feeding

link to some info that may be helpful as well.

---and Welcome! Keep asking questions. You've come to the right place for answers.

Tracy, you're a life-saver! Thank you for entertaining ALL of my questions with answers! I've been worrying about these things for weeks.

And I'm so glad I asked. Sounds like my poor girl has been completely gorged for weeks! No wonder she looks a little softer around the edges. Definitely going to cut back.

Her poops have been surprisingly hard. But that's probably because I've been proportionately gorging her on RMB's.

I'm also relieved to know that I don't have to save all those chicken guts. It was out of pure love alone that I waded through all that and divided them nicely into freezer baggies. Yuck! Wish I had asked sooner.

The link was also a wonderful help. Loved the pictures. I'm totally a visual learner. Wish all this wasn't so gross though. It would take a good portion more of that pure love to get me to cut up green tripe...or brain! I do have limits.

Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm excited to continue to learn from you all. This is my first GSD and I have a LOT to learn.

Hard poops are easy to fix. That just means too much bone in the diet. Add more muscle meat to the ratio and that will fix itself pronto.

Important to keep a large breed puppy (and especially a breed prone to hip issues like a GSD) on the lean side. The extra weight is hard on growing joints. And the extra calories could encourage too rapid growth.

And all the business about percentages of weight are really nothing more than a guide. Feed the dog standing in front of you. If you can tell by looking and feeling that the weight is not right, adjust the feed.

If you've killed and butchered chickens, you've already conquered the gross part. It's all just meat in one shape or another.

Feeding raw isn't difficult. Once you get the hang of it and understand how to get a feel for the right balance of bone to meat.

Everyone figures out their own best system for buying and storing food (where to get it, how much at a time), and meal prep (or pre- prep). There's no single right way.

Good luck!

bump!

bump!

I agree, Bob. Good thread. :-)