I have a 15 week old male German Shorthaired Pointer puppy who I believe is having an issue with separation anxiety.

I purchased him at 10 weeks from a breeder I have known for many years. He is appropriately independent and soft so far when it comes to training. The problem started about a week after we got him home.

I thought he had started peeing in the crate, but quickly realized that there was actually standing drool in the bottom of the crate.

We had never left him more than two hours. He enjoys the crate and goes in and out on his own.

He is fed the best food I can afford which he enjoys in the crate and is given bones and other treats in the crate. The only other time he receives treats is when training which is only 1-2 brief sessions per day.

We have always made sure he's well worn out before going in the crate. He begins frothing at the mouth in the crate as soon as he realizes we're leaving and seems dehydrated from losing at least a half cup of saliva by the time we return. This can happen in only fifteen minutes.

As soon as I realized the issue 4 weeks ago, I began tethering him next to his bed at night instead of putting him in the crate (he was in another room so I didn't realize he was screaming ALL night which caused him to sleep almost all day).

He does fine with the tether and despite having a range of about 6ftx4ft never relieves himself inside at night.

My husband left him home and NOT crated for about an hour and a half yesterday and he did fine. Though I almost had a fit when I heard about it, but that's beside the point.

I have read the articles and many Q&A's that relate to crate training and separation anxiety but was wondering if anyone had experience with using an ex pen instead of a crate when not home. Any thoughts or suggestions would be most welcome. Thanks in advance!

First, what kind of crate training did you do, and what issues did you see?

I followed the instructions in the article here http://leerburg.com/housebrk.htm . He never cried more than a few moments in the crate when I was in the room, but had quite a bit of trouble when I left. I was advisd by the breeder who is also a trainer that he might cry the first few nights but that he should adapt quickly, so I put the crate on the other side of the house. I realized he was actually screaming the entire night and tried moving the crate into my bedroom to see if that would provide some comfort, but he just screamed there as well. Despite being looked over by the vet, I was concerned about his health because he was sleeping all day and drinking so much water, but it turns out it was just because he was up ALL night crying and salivating. We've gotten to where he is ok in the crate with a bone and the door shut if I'm in the house within about 5 feet of the crate for about twenty minutes, but if it even looks like I might walk away he starts screaching and barking and foaming at the mouth from distress. He will settle quickly, within a few minutes, when he realizes I'm not leaving though (I do not speak to him or pay him any attention at all but turn my back when he is fussing in the crate). I have never taken him out of the crate when he's been doing anything but sitting quietly. I suppose I'm just not sure how to get over the hurdle of actually leaving. Do I just stand outside the door for a few minutes until he's quiet and then come back in? Then give him a treat, or let him out? I've never had a dog that didn't take to a crate readily and am at a loss as to what to do. I'm currently leaving him with a "sitter" three days a week while I'm at work and have only left him crated twice for an emergency since we realized there was a problem.

Well, first, you know that an ex-pen isn't reliable containment, right? Not reliable to the point of leaving the house and assuming that the puppy is staying safely inside it. (I'm not saying that this individual pup can't be left safely in the house uncrated .... maybe he can .... just that the ex-pen isn't reliable containment.)

This pup is potty-trained, I think you said, so that might change to some degree how important it is that he be crated when you leave. A room with a baby gate might be sufficiently secure (again, depending on the dog). But I'm not totally clear .... you said "We've gotten to where he is ok in the crate with a bone and the door shut if I'm in the house within about 5 feet of the crate for about twenty minutes, but if it even looks like I might walk away he starts screaching and barking and foaming at the mouth from distress." But he was fine when left alone uncrated?


There are steps you can take to start desensitizing him to your leave-taking. I have a recovered S/A screamer at the present time .... it took some work, and I also needed the help (not often) of a neighborhood teenager and even (on occasion) a petsitter service for when I left the house (at the beginning of the work).

This dog was not crated (he was already a senior when I got him and had never been crate-trained ... and he didn't need house-training); it was just being left that triggered him. (You could hear him screaming from a couple of blocks away.)

The teenager down the street was hugely helpful just as a warm body during those early days. (I didn't want to risk undoing my work in the early stages with a long period of left-aloneness.)

Fortunately, I work at home. So anyway, I worked on "my leaving was no big deal." I did not do this: "Do I just stand outside the door for a few minutes until he's quiet and then come back in?" Instead, I didn't leave for long enough to trigger the reaction. I popped in and out very often and very briefly and never with any drama (either leaving or returning). I slowly and irregularly increased the time (again, having the goal of not triggering the reaction). These beginning weeks were when I used the neighbor or a petsitter if I actually left. (My goal was to break the screaming/panicking habit.)

I have also, with other dogs, done "crate door open, crate door closed" for random times, with good things in the crate. Have you done brief leave-taking (maybe just walk out of the room and right back) with the crate door open? (Just part of separating the closed crate door with "all alone for a long time.")

Thanks Connie, I wasn't aware that ex pens were not adequate for confinement, but I'm glad you told me before I went and ordered one.
I suppose Cannon is houstrained since he doesn't go in the house and goes to the door if he has to go out in between regular times, but he's rarely had to go more than two hours without an outside break except at night as I'm not interested in pushing his limits.
I definitely don't trust him alone because he is teething and tries to chew ANYTHING he can get into his mouth, including the metal legs of my coffee table. I just don't think it would be safe for him right now. But yes, the problem seems to be the combination of being in the crate and being left alone. My husband said he was just fine when he left him in loose in the house.
In the second to last paragraph you say to come and go with no drama very often but never long enough to trigger the reaction. So I'm guessing it's ok to literally walk out and walk right back in? Because he starts have a fit the second I walk away. Also, should I only come back in when he is quiet if I don't make it back in in time? And do you also mean that I should not give him a treat when he is quiet in the crate during these sessions and essentially ignore him and act as though I'm going about my own business?
I haven't done the brief leave-taking with the crate door open, but he hasn't learned "stay" or "wait" yet, so he definitely would just hop right out unless I'm misunderstanding the concept. Would teaching "stay" first help? He does seem to be somewhat impatient and vocal in general and I'm probably personifying, but I can't help but feel he's rushing or bossing me when he first starts up in the crate.
I'm sorry for asking so many questions, but I feel like I need to get a clear plan first because if I get this wrong I'll just be spinning my wheels and possibly making his anxiety worse.
Thank you so much for your patience!

Thanks Connie, I wasn't aware that ex pens were not adequate for confinement, but I'm glad you told me before I went and ordered one.
I suppose Cannon is houstrained since he doesn't go in the house and goes to the door if he has to go out in between regular times, but he's rarely had to go more than two hours without an outside break except at night as I'm not interested in pushing his limits.
I definitely don't trust him alone because he is teething and tries to chew ANYTHING he can get into his mouth, including the metal legs of my coffee table. I just don't think it would be safe for him right now. But yes, the problem seems to be the combination of being in the crate and being left alone. My husband said he was just fine when he left him in loose in the house.
In the second to last paragraph you say to come and go with no drama very often but never long enough to trigger the reaction. So I'm guessing it's ok to literally walk out and walk right back in? Because he starts have a fit the second I walk away. Also, should I only come back in when he is quiet if I don't make it back in in time? And do you also mean that I should not give him a treat when he is quiet in the crate during these sessions and essentially ignore him and act as though I'm going about my own business?
I haven't done the brief leave-taking with the crate door open, but he hasn't learned "stay" or "wait" yet, so he definitely would just hop right out unless I'm misunderstanding the concept. Would teaching "stay" first help? He does seem to be somewhat impatient and vocal in general and I'm probably personifying, but I can't help but feel he's rushing or bossing me when he first starts up in the crate.
I'm sorry for asking so many questions, but I feel like I need to get a clear plan first because if I get this wrong I'll just be spinning my wheels and possibly making his anxiety worse.
Thank you so much for your patience!

Alex, you will likely get other very good replies tonight .... but also, I promise to answer the questions you asked me tomorrow a.m., too, as far as what I have done for S/A. (Gotta go out right now, but wanted to assure you that I would clarify wherever you had questions.)

... he doesn't go in the house and goes to the door if he has to go out in between regular times, but he's rarely had to go more than two hours without an outside break except at night as I'm not interested in pushing his limits. ...

I totally agree!





In the second to last paragraph you say to come and go with no drama very often but never long enough to trigger the reaction. So I'm guessing it's ok to literally walk out and walk right back in? Because he starts have a fit the second I walk away. Also, should I only come back in when he is quiet if I don't make it back in in time? And do you also mean that I should not give him a treat when he is quiet in the crate during these sessions and essentially ignore him and act as though I'm going about my own business?

These are really two different questions to me. Yes, I mark and reward (at the very least, praise and pet) for calm quiet in the crate.

The first part, YES about the shortest time you can possibly be perceived as leaving and then return, without triggering the reaction. I do know this may start out being nothing more than a few steps toward the doorway and then turning around. (And the increases are random and small and gradual.) I would quietly mark and reward if the dog had zero reaction, and do nothing otherwise.






I haven't done the brief leave-taking with the crate door open, but he hasn't learned "stay" or "wait" yet, so he definitely would just hop right out unless I'm misunderstanding the concept.


You might do the same as above .... start with nothing but the slightest move away and then return, while he has a fabulous filled Kong or something.

You know that the dog should be exercised, walked, pottied. before these crate moments, right? NOT bouncing with frustrated energy, on edge from needing to move, etc. IMO, this is hugely important.








He does seem to be somewhat impatient and vocal in general and I'm probably personifying, but I can't help but feel he's rushing or bossing me when he first starts up in the crate.

You have to not respond in any way, ever. No attention. If you respond with attention, even negative, then you are training him that you will respond if he just acts up enough.






I'm NOT saying that this is the only protocol, BTW, and I think others will respond as well. This is just what I've done successfully (and yes, it takes time and patience).


Glad to see that you are marker training. Are you doing regular (but short) sessions throughout the day? Marker training will increase his confidence (and yours!) and also tire out his young brain (in a good way).

Thank you so much Connie! I can't tell you how helpful your replies have been in clarifying things for me!
We definitely only put him in the crate when he's wiped out and I know it's about his nap time.
Your explanation of how to work through the s/a issue is the most crystal clear thing I've read, and, as you can imagine, I've been reading A LOT! I finally feel like I understand enough that I can handle the process.
As far as the marker training, yes I try for 2 short structured sessions daily (three if you count our brief loose lead walking practice) and then throughout the day randomly have him use the instructions he already knows in diffirent situations around the house with intermittent rewards, but more or better ones if I ask for something big like "OUT"ing the turtle he catches in the yard. As such, I keep treats in my pocket constantly or in a treat pouch (I believe the proper term is bait bag) if I don't have pockets. I never imagined I'd be so keen on wearing a fanny pack again after the horrible things went out of style the first time!

 Quote: Alex Gray

I never imagined I'd be so keen on wearing a fanny pack again after the horrible things went out of style the first time!

What? When?

All those separate stash compartments, big open pouch for stuff. Nice wide, handy, dandy clip on belt that you can hang more stuff off. Hands free, never incidentally leave it somewhere, mini purse. Out of style, really?? Did not get that email.

Aside from the earth shattering news, so glad to hear that Connie got you on the right track. She's pretty darn good at 'splainin' things.

New pups are so fun. Enjoy! They grow up so fast.