I was wondering what the effect on a dog's grip would be if you went back and forth between a sleeve and bitesuit. I asked this because I decided to have a little fun with my dog and change things up a bit and make things more real. My helper has a bitesuit and we decided to try my dog on it. He did super, never hesitated to bite him anywhere on the suit. He bit him in the leg, the shoulder, the arm, the back etc... My dog really enjoyed it. We even brought him into a building on different surface and had some bitesuit work done in there. My dog LOVED it but will this effect his Schutzhund training in the long run? I still want to compete with this dog. Right now I see how much he likes the change and would like to continue with this for awhile if it won't effect his over all schutzhund training. I don't want him getting dirty or taking leg bites in a trial.

Karmen,

Our experience is the dog will take what is presented. If the arm is the easiest bite they will take it. If not, they will start looking for something else. In addition, the dog is smart enough to recognize the situation and react acordingly. It will recognize a Schutzhund exercise and make a bite on the arm for it. Now I wouldn't recomend the helper making that a tough bite, hiding the sleeve or too many attempts at making the dog miss. He may just decide to take something easier <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> . The dogs we work go back and forth between a suit and sleeve all the time depending on what we are working on. There do get to be some problems if the sleeve isn't presented right or the dog has issues with the sleeve and then we may have to move to the bite suit for a while. An agitator let his arm drift out too far on my Giant and took an unprotected arm pit bite. The dog called out quickly and the agitator wasn't seriously injured, but it does happen.

I was wondering what the effect on a dog's grip would be if you went back and forth between a sleeve and bitesuit. I asked this because I decided to have a little fun with my dog and change things up a bit and make things more real.

I have come to the conclusion that starting on the suit is the way to go with the dogs as long as they have they character for it. Not to make it more real since the dog quickly understands the material and the suit is then nothing more than a big sleeve.
What works well is that i can condition the basics if grip and countering on the suit where mistakes will not impact the dog's grip on a schutzhund style sleeve. So, as soon as the dog's ready to move from a nice round puppy sleeve to a suit that's where I go to. I work on commitment and intensity on the suit. I encourage the dog to counter and fill his/her mouth with the material to win.
Now if you are interested in practical work i suggest that you look at the work you do in general. Is the dog refocused on the decoy and initiates action over the sleeve? How does the dog respond to civil work? Will the dog grip a concealed sleeve over the slipped sleeve (the test only works as long as the dog doesn't know there is a hidden sleeve, no smelly old jackets the dog recognizes as associated with a hidden sleeve, no time to smell the sleeve, and on a decoy who can disquise the presentation).
Muzzle work will help immensely on some dogs but the final and most important part is where you will impact your schutzhund work. You must break every pattern your dog knows in bite work and do as many traininbg sessions under practical circumstances that you can imagine.
It is not the equipment that makes a dog practical. It is the direction you take your training.
Now if you want to make schutzhund work more fun for you and the dog...use a suit. For some dogs it is a key to increasing their intensity for a time due to the uniqueness of the work.

I wanted to give my dog a little more spice to his training. I think that the same old routine training gets boring for dogs. This is the first time he has been on a suit and he has never been worked in a hidden sleeve or muzzle work. I would love to try it with him. My dog's civil drive at home/car is great but he knows Schutzhund and is more locked into prey on the field. I wanted to, as Kevin stated, increase his intensity. He seems to really like this work and his barking is deeper and he squares himself up now verses barking sleeve side. He seems to like the fight my helper gives him when he bites on the suit. I will continue over the winter to have him worked in the bitesuit. Does the bitesuit work carry over well when the dog is returned to the sleeve or do they resort back to previous behavior?

I will continue over the winter to have him worked in the bitesuit. Does the bitesuit work carry over well when the dog is returned to the sleeve or do they resort back to previous behavior?

You have to do a little more than just work the suit in the B&H to fix this.
First, the decoy must never give a grip when the dog is barking over the sleeve or especially at the sleeve. Work towards eye contact and use multiplt corrections on the prong collar to stimulate and at the same time move the dog to the squared up position in front. Decoy must quickly deliver a grip if and when the dog squares himself up. I would use two sleeves at this point so you can quickly let him have the grip and slip the sleeve to get a large number of reps in before you begin top tire the dog out. This would also be the only focus of the work until it is fixed to your satisfaction. Then I would use the suit after it seems the dog is fixing the problem himself. You may need to do some work over the sleeve first to get the dog focused on the decoy and not the movement of the equipment.
Then take the time to come to Albuquerque in March as we always seem to address this issue in Bernhards seminars ( read: plug for seminar )

He has eye contact with the helper because I asked him awhile back. He barks sleeve side in the blind but is square anywhere else. Could this be just a learned behavior in the blind? I would love to come to Bernhards seminar. Maybe I can get Ed and Cindy to give me a ride <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />