Richard,

Most of what you described are simple excuses for being a jerk. You find this in every walk of life. I think most of it stems from arrogance. I've personally found that the better "working dog breeders" I deal with are just the opposite in most respects you described.

John

John, I am not in agreement with your opinion on working breeders and the jerks.

First I am going to give credit to Brad Gargis aka Wolf Larsen for identifing himself and posting a phone number.

BUT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

He did make a demanding phone call to Seven Pines and did so without identifing himself to the owner of that Kennel.

Keep in mind here that Seven Pines specialize in Police Service Dogs that would include Patrol along with Bomb, Drug and other detection dogs.

Put yourself into Seven Pines shoes and tell us what you would do with an unknown person wanting to come and be in direct contact with your dogs and yourself.

What If>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that unknown person wanting to come to your property was a disgruntled drug dealer who was busted and jailed as a result of your dogs.

No who is the Jerk, John.

Dog breeders and trainers are not the only ones who can be jerks and the fence does have two sides.

Every month I have to turn away a few who want to be involved with the type of work I do and some are rather upset but if they do not even want to say who they are then, who is the jerk in this situation?

Jerry Cudahy

John,

Most of the breeders I have dealt with have been very pleasant too. Some that I thought were jerks turned out to be really nice people once you get to know them. I don't think it is a concsious decision for the things I mentioned. I think it develops over time, and bad experiences with people they talk with. I don't excuse it as behavior, but I do understand it. Since I don't get my back up about the attitude, it tends to change towards me.

Nobody is forced to deal with anybody. If you don't like someone, don't deal with them. If they don't like you they probably won't deal with you. There are breeders I won't deal with because I don't like them personally, and they could have the finest dogs going and I still wouldn't take one if it was given to me.

I guess my point is that I see little point in getting on someone this publicly based on a single experience. In a lot of cases it is difficult to break in to some circles in dogs, it isn't right, but it is common enough that people should know about it. It isn't the way I behave towards new people, but everybody isn't going to accept you with open arms.

Originally posted by Richard Cannon:
John,
I guess my point is that I see little point in getting on someone this publicly based on a single experience. . Especially since the party involved cannot speak for themselves here. All we are hearing is one side of what you think took place. I know Guy and Judith Powell and they are honest, nice people. I just cannot see Guy talking to you like that out of the blue. Maybe you came across as being demanding? I don't know, I wasn't there and the only other person that was isn't on this forum to defend himself.

Sue

Originally posted by Jerry Cudahy:
Put yourself into Seven Pines shoes and tell us what you would do with an unknown person wanting to come and be in direct contact with your dogs and yourself.

....that unknown person wanting to come to your property was a disgruntled drug dealer who was busted and jailed as a result of your dogs. Jerry, I was thinking along similar lines. My path of thought was....
...what if that person that hadn't identified himself was a part of PETA, GreenPeace, or one of the many wacko groups out there. If an open invitation was given to any and all with no background on who's coming, then who knows what could happen to your dogs & property.

Now, granted, I've run across some real jerks, but I've met more than enough very nice dog people when I was nice even in the face of a challenge, normally I'm fairly rude & straight forward (no time to mince words, know what I mean?). All it takes is basically being prepared to give that person (the breeder, importer, whoever) a brief overview of yourself, what you want to do, what your hopes are, the conditions of the prospective new home, and most importantly EXACTLY what you're looking for. Using this method, I've been show utmost courtesy by breeders, one in particular, Shelby Yeakle of Enckhausen, pointed me in a direction so that I could get my Brawnson son, even though it wasn't her litter, and she went out of her way (at least in my view) to make sure I got in touch with the owner and followed up with me to make sure I got what I wanted. I know it's hard telling your life's story over and over again, but it does help you befriend people and make new contacts in the dog world.

Just my longwinded .02

Maybe I was misunderstood, I was not referring to Guy. I don't know him. I was
referring to Richard's post and specifically the part " the attitude you received are
fairly typical among the better working type breeders."and the brief explanation of
why this occurs. This simply hasn't been my experience. I also agree "I see little
point in getting on someone this publicly based on a single experience. " I just
want to make it clear, the references I made has nothing to do with Guy and I
apologize if I didn't make myself clear.

John

Good rule for introducing yourself to people you do not know on the phone, email, etc.

Begin by giving them the following information:

Who; What; When; Where; Why; and sometimes, How. (You can figure out the details.)

I have found that most breeders will talk your ears off about dogs if you have time to listen. The breeder of my bitch asked me some very good questions when I called him from halfway across the country...but I was prepared to answer them without taking offense.

I don't know what was said in this instance, and it speaks well for Wolf that he was willing to give his contact information, but I certainly do know about all the goofy calls I got over the years from people who, IMO, should have been culled from the gene pool before puberty.

"Ah got this dog thet wuud mak a really good po-lice dog...he's 1/2 Chow...1/2 German Shep-erd...and 1/2 wolf and he'll biite the hell outen you," (True story!)

I was out of town for 3 days or this would have been closed sooner.

If I started a thread ever time someone in the dog game was rude to me then I would need my own board. Richard as usual was right on the mark.