Any info on this dog or his lines? I am looking at a litter that this dog is the Grandsire.The Sire and Dam are loosely line bred on the same lines. Any info would be appreciated. I am leaning toward this breeder because I am going to get a really good price on these pups. And the breeder is located 10 mins from me and used to go to my schutzhund club. Both Sire and Dam are SchH 1. Tell me what you guys think.

Thanks

I wouldn't accept anything less than Schutzhund III. (From both parents) I'd also look very hard at the mother's ability. I've heard it's much more important than some think. This is just my opinion. Good luck with whatever decision you make. If money is a concern then I understand.

I've heard though that even a show dog with a decent trainer can title in Sch I. (This is just something I've heard)

Originally posted by Brad Gargis:
I've heard though that even a show dog with a decent trainer can title in Sch I. (This is just something I've heard) A show dog with a decent trainer can get a SchH3. It's all a matter of what level of competition. I highly doubt you'll see a showline dog winning the BSP, but you will see a lot of showline dogs with a SchH3.

Originally posted by Brad Gargis:
I wouldn't accept anything less than Schutzhund III. (From both parents) I'd also look very hard at the mother's ability. Well, you'd be missing out on a LOT of good dogs. For one example, Stormfront's Brawnson (SchH3, FH2, DPO2, WPO, SWAT Entry member) x Nefrotite (sp?) Arabrab (SchH1). I've heard great things about these litters, not to mention that one was bought by a guy in Germany to be his personal street K9 dog. Working ability means so much more than titles do. If you've got a great bitch (or male) that's SchH1 or Bh or ready for the Bh, but time limits constrain your breeding choices (ie the stud dog is getting old, the perfect match bitch is about to be retired from breeding, etc), that doesn't mean that the puppies aren't worth the same or more than one's that come from a pair of SchH3 dogs. And what about working PSDs? They don't have fancy titles, but I bet most of them can work with or above a dog with a SchH3 title alone. The point is, titles are great BUT it's how the dog works that's the important factor.

Just because someone does not work dogs but has working lines does not mean they are bad. But I do have the option to see the parents. And this breeder does work in schutzhund. From what I have heard is the sire is quite impressive to watch during bitework. He takes a leap from about 10 feet out on the long bite. If these dogs were 5-6 years old and only have a sch1 I would be concerned. I really don't care if the parents have titles, I look at what the pedigree has produced. And how they turn out. This is part of the process here by asking if anyone has info on this dog. I do know the Frackenhorst kennel in Holland has produced very serious dogs. Please let me know if you have any info on these dogs.

Thanks

Things also to keep in mind...is if it is a serious breeder, training to the higher titles takes time out of breeding season. Some breeders just put the one on to show breed worthiness. I, however, have a bitch w/o a title(oohhh I hear the boos now), out of her last 9 puppies she has 5 PSDs. Possible one more, I am taking him back from his owner(can't handle him). So again, there is more than titles.

Mike, Police dogs are a green light, that goes without saying. :rolleyes: What your saying is true, but what are the statistics? I just mean I'd want some form of proof before I put my money down. I assume the average kennels don't have the resources to get police dogs into their gene pool. For the record, competition doesn't mean jack, and I never said they did. Work is the MOST important. Buying a dog to me is all a gamble, for me I'm just trying to limit the odds so I can have better success.

They're always exceptions, and I don't know if the majority feel a female's ability is more important, but that's my opinion. I know the majority aren't as good as the males and that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying they are the most important with breeding, IMO.

Main point is I have to have some form of proof to have an idea. IF the breeder is reputable and I trust their judgement then that's different. The dog has to have some ability to something. Whether it be Sch, The Ring, KNPV, Police work, ect, whatever the case. I don't know DobermanonGuard or his friend. I'm just trying to help and give my opinion. On this thread I'm not debating. It doesn't matter to me either way. This isn't a Sport title or Breeding Debate.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Todd E. Gaster:
I, however, have a bitch w/o a title(oohhh I hear the boos now), out of her last 9 puppies she has 5 PSDs.

no boos from me, Todd. I've got a really great bitch, no local SchH club, but we train as best we can, and have to go to outside clubs to trial. Our oldest bitch is very impressive, we got her and she was flat, now she's alert, attentive, and intense, it was a matter of work put in vs. results out. I want to get a female and possibly a male (for future breedings) out of her, yet the males I like are getting old, so I know the value she has and will breed her before she gets the title if given the chance. Of course it doesn't hurt that she's linebred on Harro & Sagus, granddaughter to P litter Akbar (Perle, Pia's litter sister), and great granddaughter to both Fado Karthago and G litter Haus Larwin (Gimmy, Gento's litter sister) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yes I like to see titles, but titles don't mean anything. Our last trial this past weekend the judge past dogs that should never been past. I have an american doberman now. He is ready for his B and Sch1(except for gunfire) but would pass. I am a very good trainer. Most would have never looked twice, but I did. I could fool the judge into getting him passed. Does this mean he is breed worthy? HELL NO! Showline GSD's have to have Sch titles to be bred. But are not always the best workers. If you rely solely on titles I feel bad for you in the future. You might get lucky with a dog. A GSD could be SchIII, IPOIII, KKl 1 and still produce retarded dogs! I look at what the lines have produced before making a selection. This is the only way to go. I appreciate your help Brad, I know you mean well. This is getting away for my original post, any inf on the above mentioned dog would be appreciated.

Thanks

I think titles are not everything. I got my bitch because I saw her mother work (way before my bitch was born), she was only RCI I. Her bark and hold could scare the hell out of the devil. The father is RCI (IPO) III, ZTP V 1A, AD, etc..., but I would have got a puppy from ANY good male with that bitch.
You must see the dogs for yourself, how they work. A good trainer can put a SchH III title on almost any dog. Some great dogs only make it to RCI I for many reasons.
Of course it was a repeated mating and I knew they produced great dogs, but it was the mother that got me interested. The father is a great dog, with all the titles, but he's been mated to other bitches and the results were not the same.

JMO.
Pedro.