Maybe, I am way off base here. But doesn't anybody even consider the thinking ability of the dog itself. We can train for different situations day in and day out and never have that exact same situation come up on the street. I quess I am referring to street work or PP.

Are we expecting too much out the dog - is everyone looking for that "perfect" well oiled machine, because I need to be one better than the next dog.

We train people to react under different circumstances, but still they expected to think for themselves along with the training they received.

I know this started off as "good dogs hard to find" - each trainer/handler has a different defination of a good dog -- are we expecting more out of the dogs than 50 years ago. Is there more of a demand and a problem with supply as of 50 years ao. I know as far the as the PSD, there is a much higher demand now - than even 20 years ago.

Just my thoughts
Mark Addison

Originally posted by Lee Baragona - Sch3FH2:
Initiative and problem solving are skills that are developed in training, or squelched in training. I really don't think they are genetic traits. Pfaffenberger found that simply keeping the prospective guide dog puppies in a kennel environment...

Go back to the source (the inspiration of much of Pfaffenberger's work) and read Scott & Fuller's "Genetics and the Social Behavior of the Dog". Among the things tested was the heritability of problem solving behaviors.

For example, of the 5 breeds tested, basenjis tended to do the best and shelties the worst on problem solving in the "barrier tests". Given that these were all pups bred and raised under identical conditions at Scott & Fuller's lab, the differences observed were not due to environmental factors such as socialization and training. They were genetic.

In some cases inferior performances in problem solving tests were noted by Scott & Fuller to be due to "fearfulness" of the test situation... poor nerves which are genetic. In other cases it appeared that lack of food drive... also genetic... contributed to poor responses in some problem solving tests. But Scott & Fuller said these did not account for all poor performances as one of the least fearful and highest food motivated breeds tested (fox terriers) also scored poorly in some of the problem solving tests.

I suspect that dog breeding for show or pets... with no test of performance... can lead some really stupid dogs. A friend relayed to me a story of an AKC show Collie she was fostering who wasn't fearful but was simply too stupid to figure out how to use the doggie door at her house. The Collie watched her other dogs and even her cats use the doggie door and while the Collie wanted to follow he could not figure it out. This friend trains client pet dogs for a living, and said this level of stupidity is not unusual in AKC showline dogs of various breeds that she runs across.

Laura