Everyone who writes anything about protection dogs always mentions Kuvaszs as a final side note, and copies what every previous author in history has said: "A tough breed. Every one that I've met has been hard."

First question:
Many people use "hardness" to refer to stubborn dogs that oppose correction, or dogs which need severe corrections. However, I've recently heard some asserting that hardness was a positive trait and meant that a dog that has the ability to recover from and put behind him unpleasant experiences. Is there an accepted definition for the word?

Second question:
These dogs (Kuvasz) look a lot like Great Pyranees, which brings to my mind images of an incredibly powerful but hellishly stubborn beast that I once knew. Fearless, very protective, and powerful, but quite dog aggressive and hard to train (understatement). Was this Pyranees typical of the breed, and is the Kuvasz similiar in temperament? What puts the Kuvasz on all of these "Protection dog lists" and keeps the Pyranees off?

Hi there Torre, hows it hangin?

Anyway, the working definition of hardness is what you have said. It is a quality that allows a dog to resist and recover from painful or stressful situations, including corrections. It is something that you need to have a level of in a working dog. How much is a question that can be debated. The adverse impact of hardness, in a dog, is that it requires more severe corrections. This will further intensify any problems with a dog that is not naturally responsive, dominate, or dull. So hardness is a good quality, too much hardness is not. It will depend on who you talk to and what they consider hardness. But all working dogs have it to some extent. You will find that throughout working circles these terms used to describe behavior in dogs are in no way uniform. I have found that if you really want to discuss a specific topic then you are better off to spend the time to describe the exact behavior than to use these catch terms.

The Kuvasz is smaller and more agile. It is also more responsive than the Pyrenean Mountain Dog, wich is not to be confused with the American Great Pyrenees. They are the same breed but one is a worker and one is a show dog. The Pyrenean Mountain Dog (Chien des Pyrenees) was bred to work alone to protect a flock. That stubborness, independance, and "hardness" is necessary for their work. These qualities do not make them the most trainable type of dogs. Just a note, there are about four or five types of this dog that work throughout the world. Then there are others that look similar but are not related directly. The Kuvasz is related.

Does that begin to answer your question?

I think the reason for this is because they are extremely aggressive to strangers from what I've heard. They are very weak with training, but from what I've read they are primarily for guarding sheep, goats, etc. They seem to do this almost naturally. I've heard these dogs practically think they are sheep. They will protect people but they are different. The GP are related like Van Camp said, but generally work has been breed out of them.

If I was looking for a dog of this type, and it was a little bit better with training, and could do the same tasks as the Kuvasz, then I would look at the Antolian Shepherd, or Akbash dog. They're from Turkey. I think also they respond a little better to training. They are just as hard.

These things I've described are the most common things, there's always an exception. Generally though I think this is how they are.

I think Van Camp though answered your question. I only mentioned this incase you were looking for something similar.

Also flag down Richard and ask him, he seems to specialize in this sort of stuff.

You can find some very nice working Kuvasz in Hungary, Czech Republic, and Slovakia. Not to mention several other Eastern European countries. All of these countries have a very good tradition of working dogs.

The Pyrenean Mountain Dog can be imported from Spain, parts of France, and also some East Euro countries with good working ability. Also the Polish Owczarek Podhalanski is a relative of the Hungarian Kuvasz. Very good all round working potential but with almost exactly the same conformation and size as the Pyrenean Mountain Dog/Great Pyranees. These dogs are also very agile and fast for their size. The Great Pyranees that you see in most dog shows is not a good representation of the working breed.

The Anatolian Shepherd is very similar in temperament as the Owczarek and working Kuvasz.

OH YEAH . . . well I'd still go with the Anatolian. lmao

Yes, that was very informative. Thanks.

The Great Pyranees I mentioned above once witnessed a very intimidating local guard dog (who was over 100 lbs) growling at some neighborhood children. I've never seen a creature (wives excluded) look as mad as that Pyranees did at that moment. As he slammed into that other dog, then pinned and mauled it, I remember thinking two things: (1) I can't believe all the yahoos in this neighborhood let their massive dogs run wild; and (2) with all that raw power, if those things were trainable, they'd be a pretty damn good protection dog. In fact, if he didn't spend his time running through plate glass doors and barking all night, I might have bought one.

Well I never did either. That case in San Francisco is a prime example. I don't think when an accident occurs it should be Murder, but I think those people should be held criminally accountable. I think they should serve more time than DUI crimes.

As far as wanting a dog that's large that would obey sufficiently, if I was looking for that then I'd get a Rottweiler. With this type of breed you could get it to do what you'd want in obedience. I'm sure a top professional could get results from the type of dogs that have been mentioned, but they'd have more success with Rotts. I've heard though Anatolians and Akbash dogs are pretty good with obedience compared to other livestock guardians.