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First Heat Hasn't Happened Yet?
#6300 - 01/04/2005 08:53 PM |
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One of my female pup's NIKI "HAS NOT" gone into heat yet. She is one week over 17 months old. NIKI is the youngest of two pups and her half sister BAXI has just started her fourth heat at the age of 23 1/2 months of age.
Several months ago I thought that NIKI, the youngest pup might have gone into heat but I'm sure she did not. BAXI the oldest female is definately DOMINATE so I don't know what role this plays into the youngest pup going into heat, if anything. With that said, NIKI is extremely healthy, energetic, and full of life and great health. So what gives? Could she be sterile? I would think that if she were sterile she would still have a heat.
NIKI's full sister "littermate" owned by a friend went into heat at approximately 1 year of age. She also lives with another older female dog but the oldest dog is not dominate such as in my case.
Hope this is not too confusing.
Glenn
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Re: First Heat Hasn't Happened Yet?
[Re: Glenn Wills ]
#6301 - 01/04/2005 09:53 PM |
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Have you asked your vet? That would be my first stop. Is this a female you were planning to breed at some point? Or?
There is a possibility that she is having silent heats, which you wouldn't know, and usually the only way you find out is if you have a male around who tells you.
There are blood tests they can do to see if she has had a cycle within the last two months. Once the bitch ovulates, the progesterone rises to a range of 15-40 nanograms and is maintained there for the next two months whether the bitch is pregnant or not.
There is also a drug to induce a cycle, but it runs a couple hundred bucks and is not indicated for producing an initial heat.
I seriously doubt the lack of a heat has to do with the other bitch. I have seen the other females follow the lead bitch and cycle even if it was no where near their time, but I have not seen the other bitches totally shut down.
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Re: First Heat Hasn't Happened Yet?
[Re: Glenn Wills ]
#6302 - 01/05/2005 08:57 AM |
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I did talk to my Vet a couple of months ago and she was unable to tell me anything other than it was a bit unusual but that she thought she was still within the window? As far as breeding goes I was considering it but have not completely made up my mind. Actually after watching Ed's whelping video I am rethinking the whole breeding thing. I am going to watch and rewatch the whelping video and make a decision about breeding BAXI my oldest bitch somtime this summer. As far as NIKI goes I guess I'll just give it some time and see what she does. I'm not going to breed either of them just to be breeding. I think both my CZECH females have some good things to bring to the working German Shepherd gene pool if I pick the right stud. I really want to breed both of them to Kevin's dog CJ. That's what I hope to do but again I have some more thinking to do.
Glenn
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Re: First Heat Hasn't Happened Yet?
[Re: Glenn Wills ]
#6303 - 01/05/2005 09:15 AM |
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glenn< you said that your girl was extremely healthy and she probably is, but if i were you, i'd check out a few things just to be sure. talk to your vet again, but the first thing i'd want to rule out might be thyroid dysfunction. he might have some other ideas about what could be the root cause of the problem. i guess i would just want to make sure there wasn't some underlying health problem that could be the true cause for no-heat.
if there are no dogs in heaven, then when i die i want to go where they went. ---will rogers |
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Re: First Heat Hasn't Happened Yet?
[Re: Glenn Wills ]
#6304 - 01/05/2005 09:23 AM |
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Is this as simple as getting some blood tests done? What else could cause this? What are the symptoms of a thyroid problem?
Glenn
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Re: First Heat Hasn't Happened Yet?
[Re: Glenn Wills ]
#6305 - 01/05/2005 09:49 AM |
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I have to say, while Ed's whelping video IS excellent, it doesn't even scratch the surface of what can go wrong. Think long and hard. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
The problem with the majority of vets is that they have little to NO practical breeding experience. Finding a vet that specializes may be helpful.
Before you go that far though, certainly rule out the thyroid problem, your vet should be able to do that for you.
Reproductive info- section on hypothyroidism
That page has some good info.
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Re: First Heat Hasn't Happened Yet?
[Re: Glenn Wills ]
#6306 - 01/05/2005 03:41 PM |
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Glenn
I have a bitch whose first season was at 21 months. Unusual yes; but many times comes down to the individual. Had other females cycle but she wouldn't come in. Have experienced males around her and one which would indicate about 3 weeks before a female came in...and he never did with her...and she never had silent heats.
Had the vet check her and she was fine. Nothing abnormal. Guess the time just wasn't right for her. Her sisters went into season between 8-10 months their first season.
When she did finally come in...it was a normal heat like any other...I've heard in some unusual circumstances of females waiting as long as 2 years before their first season.
Again, it's not typical...but I wouldn't get worked up over it; as long as your female checks out healthy and there aren't any medical abnormalities.
JMO
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Re: First Heat Hasn't Happened Yet?
[Re: Glenn Wills ]
#6307 - 01/05/2005 05:01 PM |
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Brigita, thanks for the information. It's calming to hear from others like you who have experienced the same thing. What type of checks did your Vet do and at what age did you take her in to have her checked? NIKI is still under 18 months old so I guess I have some time. I'm still curious as to what other types of medical problems could cause this? And what would cause the medical condition in the first place? I would think it would have to be ALL GENETIC and have nothing to do with diet right?
Glenn
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Re: First Heat Hasn't Happened Yet?
[Re: Glenn Wills ]
#6308 - 01/06/2005 02:01 AM |
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Glenn, my female was given a complete physical plus thyroid check...everything was normal--She was 17+ mos. Now there are numerous conditions that can cause this persistent anaestrus and because of your female's age--she's still within the RANGE...it's not something I'd jump into at this point or worry about. Your female is still young, HEALTHY, and this tends to point toward: 'delayed puberty'--usually dictated by genetics and the fact that each is an individual ie., shape/conditioning, diet, size/weight etc.... As I was doing some research on this...I think there were case studies where the females had their FIRST cycle at almost 3 years of age!
But some conditions are:
Hypothyroidism--typically what most vets look at first
Lymphocytic Oophoritis--premature ovarian failure
Luteal Ovarian Cyst
Pituitary Insufficiency
Ovarian Aplasia/Hypoplasia
Now I've read somewhere a long time ago that high quality animal based FAT also promotes regular cycles in k9 females. There's not much info on nutrition and its specific effects on cycles but it definitely does and can affect them. It affects human female cycles...so it would make sense not to rule it out when it comes to k9's. The interesting thing to note here though is that if puberty is delayed due to poor nutrition...The prognosis for the bitch's future fertility is poor.
In your shoes I would wait and if the vet deems your girl healthy...give her time. There is a large variance of medically 'acceptable' timeframes ranging anywhere from 5 mos to 3 years with the norm/avg being being 7-10 mos...The two ends of the spectrum are no more than Atypical or exceptions, or rarities...but they do occur all the same and differences in breeds, individual lines, and the individuals themselves have to be looked at.
Just for your own interest:
Bitch:
Attains adult body weight a few months before puberty.
Time: Eight to 12 months, with a range of six to 22 months.
Factors: Smaller breeds attain puberty earlier than larger breeds since the latter attain adult body weight much earlier. Nutrition, cross breeding, disease conditions, and also factors like ‘sire-effect' might influence the time of first estrus.
Knowledge of the events associated with onset of puberty form a necessary basis for clinical application when dealing with functional reproductive failure in peripuberal bitches. For instance, when faced with a case of possible delayed puberty, one should consider not only chronological age but also the weight (as a factor of the average adult body weight) for the breed under examination and endocrine factors. Reference: Delayed Puberty...
By the way, forgot to mention...my female's dam went into her first season at 16 months but all the siblings went into season at more typical times like 7-10 mos of age. This pup was the exception out of the litter. Also the dam's full sister went into her first season at 8 months...So I think there's a variety of factors which determine or affect puberty/cycles outside of genetics...
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Re: First Heat Hasn't Happened Yet?
[Re: Glenn Wills ]
#6309 - 01/06/2005 05:48 PM |
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Thanks Brigita for spending the time to give me some real solid information to go on. I appreciate your detailed reply. Thanks again!
Glenn
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