Joy,

I just saw your post after I sent mine.

Lady, you are really quite something. I am not attacking your work - you are one of the people I have learned positive things from on this board. You should be more secure in your work - you've helped many. You don't know me and make many assumptions. If this is the way you are I have no use for you. Guess I should be going elsewhere for help.

Originally posted by rosep:
Vince,
You'd have to go see it and see the dogs.

Then the same could be said for the novice people who condemned experienced trainers for working a dog through prey and train for sport without any experience or knowledge of the training.

I guess my point is they came to this list asked question, questions we all thought were genuine, but they were only questions to bait people into an argument. They admit they are beginners. If they want to start a crusade on Baden/Dogmen or whatever they are called now, Leerburg web board is the wrong place to do it. I wish you the best with your dog. It sounds like you have a dog you really enjoy being with and training.

Karmen is right. We're all really tired of the dogmen stuff over here. If you guys all really believe you have something unique and wonderful, why give it away here? Start a dogmen or whatever they call themselves these days Board and sell it over there. This is probably the best Board on the web for discussion of working dog issues, other than the interference by a small group of problem children who need to get off their duffs, away from the computer and on to the training field to prove all of their brilliant training philosophies.
Rosep, perhaps you are here in a sincere desire to learn, I dunno. We'll know after you've posted for awhile. Just don't expect a warm reception for bringing up training ideas that have already been proven to be unsound.

Hi all, as one of the novices on this board I'd like to put my 2 cents worth in. I don't know maybe I'm in the minority but I do check out all the sites I've seen mentioned on this board. So far I have found that the profesionals on this board know their stuff. I've tried most of whats out there in the past as far as obedence is concerned, and haven't been happy with the results. My current male Akita is 10mts old and thinks a level 10 correction is play. I purchased Eds basic ob tape a few mths ago after reading his web page. The results so far have been great. I will admit the arguments are getting a little old as it tends to take away from the original topics but I'm still soaking up as much info as I can. At least for me it is easy to see who knows whats what and who's just looking to argue. Keep spilling out all the great training secrets guys and gals. I'll keep reading and learning.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

To clear up something about my dog training methods. I trained my dog 8 years BEFORE I had ever heard of the DogMen or Baden K-9. I did not know I was training the same way they talk about in their articles. I just trained her by listening to her language. I trained her before I had any access or knowledge of how to use the internet (the early 1990s) and she is a good dog for my needs. Just because a method is different or unconventional is no reason to slam or bash it. Let's all just try to get along, ok???

I'm tired of the arguments, too. They seem to have stopped for the most part, though; could that be thanks to Ed? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have no problem discussing different viewpoints with others, but it is readily apparent when it is not really a discussion, but rather an attempt to beat everyone over the head with one's ideas. Basically, all of the issues that started this whole thing have been discussed ad infinitum, so let's just move on.......

Kelly,

I wouldn't lump you in with the "problem children". It just got a little ugly there for a while. I didn't feel like you did anything but state your opinion. Except the e-collar bit. Everybody can have a tendancy to go overboard a bit. State your opinion and listen to the responses. Check your sources of information. most people that publish things start with an agenda and results, and never let the facts get in the way.

For everybody else,

We need to take people as they come. It is easy to catogorize people based on shared opinions, but lets stick to that persons posts rather than just jump on the B.S. that someone else put out. Lets be a little less sensitve and take people for what they post, not group people just for some shared opinions.

Ok I'm willing to start over somewhat. Let's all try to compromise a little. You don't ask a question and then preach that the answer is wrong and I promise to be more objective. Which should not be hard because if you look back my last post was the only sarcastic one I wrote.

I think that if anyone isn't getting what they need from this site, then they should go elsewhere. There are tons and tons of resources available, I don't see any sense in using resources that don't give you what you need. I have little patience for that, and I guess it shows. Why go to the Widget store when you're really looking for a Wodget? I guess I did let Catherine spoil me on Kent or anyone that sounds even remotely like her. I apologize for that. I don't know why she irritates me so much, except that I think that she is someone who is not getting what it is they are looking for from this site, yet they continue to come back just to raise hackles. Like I said, I have little patience for that. I'd be willing to start fresh too, but I can't guarantee that I won't ever get irritated by something I read! I'll just try not to be rude. If I ever seem brusque in my posts, don't assume I'm being rude or angry, that's just the way I type.

I am closing this thread. I have removed three people from this web board, Catherine and Kent are gone.

The purpose for me putting this board on my web site was to help stem some of the 75 emails I got every day regarding general questions on dog training.

I did not add this discussion board to allow people to Vent their rediculous methods of dog training. I will be the judge of what is and what is not acceptable training on my web site. I think my 40 years of owning and training dogs has put me in a position to know what is good and what is bad dog training - Baden K9 (Dogmen) is bull shit. Training a dog without using prey drive is bull shit.

I will not debate this issue. Anyone who is uncomfortable with this is more than welcome to not come back to my web board - go pay Baden to listen to his Diatribe. This is a simple concept. Anyone who argues for the sake of arguing does not need to come back to my web site.

Catherine, Kent had nothing to offer other than controversy. Their views of dog training bordered on BIZARE. This is not the kind of information I care to offer new dog trainers.

Ed Frawley <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />