Hi Melody,
I guess I'd say the same as Don in that starting off training a pup puts a dog in a certain frame of mind. With an older dog you don't have any such framework. (Kinda like if you make your kids do homework right after school from day one, it becomes a norm...something they'd rebel against if you just then start demanding it of a teenager!)

As far as a dog focusing only on treats, that's ok: it is only a tool used to instill "learned behavior" patterns...ie, automatic responses to certain stimuli. Once the dog gives you the proper automatic response he can be called trained.

My dog heels while looking at her toy I hold in front of my chest. If I put that toy in my pocket, she will look at me and still heel. If I put that toy on a chair nearby, she will still look at me and still heel....because in the training stages that became her learned behavior upon my command. She is not heeling because she likes it, or even because she wants to please me; she is offering the desired behavior (looking and heeling) because that is what she learned has gotten her a reward in past training sessions. In the beginning she was rewarded quickly; then the work span increased gradually; now she will have to do a whole routine before her reward.

It's hard to understand sometimes (at least for me!) why dogs think the way they do: ie, neither one of my dogs wants to be left in the back yard (whining, barking, scratching at the door), but when I open the door to the back yard, they both rush out, pushing each other aside to be first!!
Why? Because ever since they were pups, they were given a food treat for going through the door to the back yard (the treat only given when they were outside the door).

You would think at some point they would realize that after eating that treat, they are STILL IN THE BACK YARD, where they don't want to be! But the "learned behavior", the habit, the automatic response, has been so instilled that my opening the back door and letting them out only means "treat time" to them! LOL

Ann, that is so true!!! I had a boxer that would come running when I would yell medicine. He honestly thought that the dog treats were the medicine, never mind that we stuffed our hand down his throat with that little round thingy (the pill) every time we gave him "medicine" lol boxers <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> silly, but fun dogs. it does come down to the learned behavior and the associations with it. (and no I can't spell :rolleyes: ) melody, Its great to see you posting for answers!!!! Find out what motivates them, then start over like they know nothing, this might help instill the attitude and work ethic you are looking for. some dogs just dont have that sharpness that you see in the videos, I dont know if sharp is the right word here, drive is, but I'm not sure you are used to that, so .....I guess "on it, go getter attitude" alot of dogs dont, but the pont is work with what you have hang inthere and stick with it. Find the motivator and go from there. Go with treats and then wean off them after you have created intrest. There is so much more to write, but the kiddos are needing me, and I am sure the others will have ideas.

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That's a good thing, but when there's no treat, he will not sit (meaning to me that he does not know what the command means, but that if I have food and he sits, that he gets it.)

You're already half way there! What needs to happen now is that your dog will have to "work" for that treat a bit harder. ie, he has to sit on command twice in a row before getting the treat. Then 3 times in a row, then 4, etc. And then you start mixing in some other commands (assuming he has learned these separately) like "down" or "stand" before getting a treat.

In terms of animal learning principals,
"... when rewards are given on regular or fixed intervals, response tends to be confined to those intervals; when rewards are given on irregular or unpredictable intervals, response tends to be steady but slow; when rewards are always available, but several responses are required to get it, response, once it begins, is rapid."
Also:
"If a reward is too infrequent, the organism may be reluctant to complete a response lest it go un-rewarded again. However, occasional reward produces a higher level of overall performance than a consistent reward."
(Frank Logan: Principals of Motivation and Learning)