One of my rescues was of Kirschental lines on the sire side- back to V Uwe vom Kirschental and V Fenga vom Kirschental, can't track the dam's side tho so God only knows. Her sire was a K9 in Iowa. Pretty dog and I adored her, but a mess genetically, temperament, EPI, HD, spinal issues, you name it. Jeanette - did your Bella have EPI too - I think I remember something about that?

Shelley, Congrats on producing especially the 3 certified bomb dogs.Perhaps they will save lives. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

In Manfred's opinion the HGH trial dogs ( herding/showline crosses) don't compare in any way to the real HGH but there are people who own the show/herding bloodlines and are happy with the way they work. I suppose they may not compare to the orignal herding dogs but they still work and get the job done which is most important isn't....??

Yeah most of the Kirschental dogs are showlines but because they've been crossed with the herding bloodlines they stil have working ability. 25% herding bloodlines in Xissies pedigree- but she carries those characteristics that make a herding dog, doesn't matter which other dogs in her pedigree..

In Australia we have two different bloodlines of Kelpies, working and show. While some show bloodlines can still do some sheepwork to a certain degree they in no way compare in class and style to the top working bloodlines.
Work can still be done with a show bloodline if it is good enough but the dog and the handler have to work harder to get the work done. But everyone has different tastes in their working dogs as long as the job gets done, thats the most important thing.
What I'm getting at is, Manfred's observations about the HGH dogs not comparing in any way to the real HGH and the old herding dogs is probably true but to the people who have these dogs such as Karl Fuller as long as the job gets done thats the most important thing. As everybody has different tastes in a working dog, even if it may not shape up to the old dogs.

Still I find it kinda sad reading that interview with Manfred Heyne about the HGH dogs, on the Leerburg website. I wish more of the shepherds kept with their old herding bloodlines instead of crossing with the show dogs, their dogs would have worth so much more these days... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

David as far as i know Karl Fuller owns the Kirschental kennel and his son I think has his own kennel " Vom haus Kirschental".

Yes Laureen, good memory!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Her EPI was not noticed until she was 3 years old and she dropped alot of weight suddenly during her k9 certification training period....

She was already spayed, I had done that at 2 years old. I was also told by my old trainer that there was Von Wilhenbrands (sp?)disease seen in the offspring one of the dogs in her pedigree way back, can't remember which one....in any case, I felt it best to spay her.

I am proud to say she is an awesome patrol dog and her handler can't say enough good stuff about her <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> They have been in overdrive lately with all of the snow in Ohio!! They are with out power since Wednesday, yuck, brrrr!!! Busy, busy....

BTW, just to clarify....I had a few reasons for spaying her, and not at all due to the heresay of the trainer I used to work with ( who is deceased and had been a GSD man for 45 years).