The biggest weakness in most training I see is the out/call off. My opinion has always been that most people wait too long to teach the out. My opinion is to strat teaching the out as soon as we are starting prey work.
As for the origional question, I am not sure there is much you can do with a passive subject in a group. I agree with Lou that the out and re-direct are going to be the only real option. Dogs are taught to react to a threat. Though you can teach a passive bite and train to go for a weapon, each increase in discrimination is going to make it more likely that you may have a problem. Dogs have a bit of a hard time recognizing the difference between a weapon and a benign thing in a presons hand.
My suggestion is to have as strong an out/call off as possible. It is more important in a PPD than any of the other protection acivities. I have had a couple of very successful trialers tell me that they only want the dog to out around 70% of the time. I don't think that is acceptable in a PPD. The dog needs to out 90-95% of the time. It is better for the dog to miss an occasional bite than to miss an out.
If you can't be a Good Example,then You'll just have to Serve as a Horrible Warning. Catherine Aird.
One of the more telling remarks made was that Howard had to recall his dog on four or five occasions. I think four or five people should be very happy that he won't settle for the "seventy per cent out rate is OK" school of thought.
Howard, Lou, Paul, Richard, Scott and others-- many thanks!
Matthew, My recall is back to my side. I was taught that way and never saw the need to change. I know of a couple other handlers that do it your way and it works just as well. Ive also seen one particular "Dirty" dog break the down/recall and get an undeserved bite. Not saying it is because of the method you use, only that this dog seems to take advantage of the distance between himself and the handler to satisfy his nastiness. His dept wont allow an e-collar and he also doesnt feel the need to change his ways. This is a new handler with a hard Mal. We have tried Lou Castle's idea without the e-collar and we got our but whipped. We're still working on it.
Great topic folks.
But, I'm gonna close it and start a new thread with Matthew's question since it leads this interaction a different direction. I'll title the thread PSD Releases...police jargon for out.
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