Hey all,

I have been using this site and Ed's videos to train my first working line dog for about 10 months now. He is progressing well (I believe) - READ: He is far more trained than the dogs I had growing up that knew one command which the performed with questionable reliability - sit.

Anyhow, he is doing great, but I feel like I need some hands on help from more experienced people to take him to the next level. I have tried contacting various trainers (some recommended here), but I am just not prepared to pay 200 bucks an hour, or 1,000 to 3,000 for a 8 to 10 time course.

So I have been thinking that maybe if I join a Schutzund club I might be able to get some solid help for relatively cheap. Is this a good idea? I don't want to teach my dog bitework, but obedience would be fun. Also, the reason I don't want to teach him bitework is because I a: don't have the devotion to it and b: don't believe he can be a reliable house pet after being taught to chase someone down and latch on to them - I know a lot of people on this board will probably tell me otherwise, but I still would rather not take the chance.

Would a be looked on as a nuissance or are these clubs a good resource for newbies looking to fine some training help. The only affordable training I can seem to find is all PC - no prong collar, petco whack jobs.

Also, should I be looking into something besides Schutzund like ring sports because the impression I have been getting is that Schutzund is somewhat of a joke?

Call around a few clubs, talk to the president or TD and see what they say, every club will be different.

For example, right now we (as a club) would only allow someone to come out a handful of times to grasp the basics then send them home to work on it themselves. Not because we are meanies, or political but because we are a pretty hardcore club with very specific goals. Those goals are to compete in bitework (whether it be SchH, Ring, PSA). My decoys work full time jobs, take time off to train 2 evenings in the week and take up half their weekend for nothing other than the love of the dogs, and in all honesty we don't have the time, nor room for people who don't have the same goals, it takes training time and energy away from the dogs that are up for competition. It may be cheaper to you, but time is more important than money for a lot of the more serious clubs.

My point being don't be too offended if you get knocked back, some clubs will have good, genuine reasons, this said, I don't see a problem if you only plan on only going out a few times.

I was looking into what is required for the BH in Schutzund and it seems like that alone would take some time.

For one, I know my pup would not hold an off-leash down with me out of sight and another dog walking by. He is not dog aggressive but he gets all worked up when he sees dogs at the park and wants to play and barks like crazy to get at them. I correct him for this and he stops, but I haven't been able to get him to stop initiating the behavior in the first place.

I call around and see. Any thoughts about choosing a club other than a Schutzund club? If it's all the same then I don't mind. I just hear a lot of trash talk about Schutzund and the organizations behind it.

Actually,

I should rephrase that. He occasionally gets really worked up when he sees dogs at the park. Not all the time.

In your area there should be plenty of obedience training clubs. Many are still yank and crank but you could find that out. Check your yellow pages. Most of the bad rap on Schutzhund is that many feel it doesn't really test the dog like it was intended to do. That all depends on the club. Obedience training would have nothing to do with your concerns about how bad Schutzhund may or may not be.

If you want to do obedience only, there are many instructional tapes on how to do it. I would look into those. There are web sites on clicker training, and I believe Ed has a tape on marker training. They are all based on the dog giving a correct, or close to correct response and "marking" the behavior. Then you "shape" the behavior by asking for more. Ivan has a video, and Gottfried Dildei has a video. I like the video, but not the aftermath. Obedience can be taught quite well with very little corrections, depending on the willingness of the dog. People who teach at a lot of schools use corrections due to the limited time they have to get it done. When you are not under these time constraints remember that it takes 6-8 months of work to condition a behavior. It really pays in the long run to be methodical in your training.

I have talked to a few Schutzund clubs and I am gonna go check them out this weekend. As far as tapes, I have Ed's dvds and Bernhard Flinks dvds and I try to follow them the best I can. I just feel I need a little extra help to get my dog very well trained, but I don't want to pay the crazy amount of money that most trainers charge.

Ask us non-stop questions, we will answer them saving you $$$$$$$$ Besides, it's better than reading about fluffy's bowel movement, or how amazing my dog is it got a cgc after three yaers of trying! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />