If you look at the pedigree of the Top 3 in the WUSV over the last 18 yrs. Bernd Lierberg is found within the 7th generation in almost every top 3 dog. You will also see V Racker vom Itztal and V Mike vom Bungalow and other strong male and female producers in most pedigrees along side of Bernd. I'll leave it up to someone else to calculate percent of Lierberg blood in modern champions because I didn't think to count everytime Bernd or sibling or progeny were found in the 7 generations and do the math. I also didn't count how may times Bernd's father Vello zu den Sieben-Faulen was in pedigree. Believe me Vello is in alot of these dogs pedigree with other progeny beside a Lierberg.

My eyes are killing me from looking at the 50 plus pedigrees this morning so if I missed Bodo,Bill,Gin or any of Bernd's siblings in the pedigrees, I'm sorry. When, I listed the 8th generation that's because a son or daughter of Bernd caught my eye.

Someone on another board asked me if Bernd would rate the same in conformation at today's shows. In my opinion the simple answer is no. He doesn't have the angulations or head of modern dogs. Look at photos of Bernd and compare to today's show champs. That's a shame because in performance Bernd would certainly run circles around modern show dogs.

What are your opinions?

Personally, I would love to see the top 10 BSZS dogs compete in a schutzhund trial with the top 10 dogs from the WUSV and BSP Championships. Maybe, then show and workingline breeders could hash things out about where the breed should go. If,not split the breed. I hate seeing GSD bred to be couch warmers with little drive or athletic ability.


2005
1st place Eros vd Mohnwiese --- Bernd found in 7th generation
2nd place Jabina Querry------- Bernd found in 7th generation
3rd place Xander van't Enclavehof--Bernd found in 6th and 7th

2004
1st place Eros vd Mohnwiese ---Bernd found in 7th generation
2nd place Escobar van Adelrik--Bernd found in 7th generation
3rd place Eras von der Adelegg---Bernd found in 7th generation

2003
1st place Xabarovsk Bacteroides-- 6th generation Bernd,7th Bodo
2nd place Attaque von der Adelegg-- Bernd found in 7th generation
3rd place Bac vom Gotzweiher------ Bernd found in 7th generation

2002
1st place Kalle vom Welzbachtal--Bernd found in 7th generation
2nd place Tito van de Duvetorre--Bernd found in 7th generation
3rd place Quaste von Ankenrütt-- 8th generation

2001
1st place Caro vom hohen First--Bernd found in 5th,6th and 8th generations
2nd place Akito vom Patscherkofel--Bernd found in 6th and 7th generations
3rd place Sirk vom Belchen--Bernd found in 6th and 8th generations

2000
1st place Asko von der Lutter-- Bernd 5th,6th,7th-- Bodo 6th gen
2nd place Troll vom Haus Milinda--Bernd found in 6th and 7th generations
3rd place Tabo Atenagaardens--Bernd found in 7th generation

1999
1st place Tom van't Leefdaalhof--Bernd found in 7th generation
2nd place Asko von der Lutter-- Bernd 5th,6th,7th-- Bodo 6th gen
3rd place Ernst vom Weinbergblick--Bernd found in 5th,6th,7th generations

1998
1st place Quasy von der b. Nachbarschaft Bernd found in 6th and 7th generations
2nd place Fratz vom Teuchelwald Bernd found in 5th,6th,7th generations
3rd place Tom van't Leefdaalhof--Bernd found in 7th generation


1997
1st place Gorba Eisenfrau--7th Bernd and Dolf vom Lierberg
2nd place Fratz vom Teuchelwald-- Bernd found in 5th,6th,7th generations
3rd place Dragon von d'Andico-- Couldn't find pedigree

1996
1st place Orry von HausAntverpa--Bernd 5th and 7th,Bodo 6th, Dolf 7th
2nd place Manto vom Kahlenbach-- Bernd found in 5th and 8th
3rd place Vina vom Nesselbach--Bernd 5th,6th,7th,8th Bodo 6th

1995
1st place Okar von Karthago--Bernd found in 5th,6th,7th
2nd place Amor Zlodej Slnecnic incomplete pedigree
3rd place Digger vom Schloß Veitenstein--Bernd found in 5th and 7th

1994
1st place Blacky vom Neuen Lande--Bernd 4th,6th,7th Bill Lierberg 6th
2nd place Amor Zlodej Slnecnic-- incomplete pedigree
3rd place Ben von den Aamühlen-- Bernd found in 5th,6th,7th generations

1993
1st place Natz vom Tegelhaus--Bernd found in 5th,7th and Bodo in 6th
2nd place Nico Akbar Bernd found in 5th,6th
3rd place Ex von der Maineiche 5-5 linebreeding on Dolf Lierberg

1992
1st place Orry von Haus Antverpa--Bernd 5th and 7th,Bodo 6th, Dolf 7th
2nd place Buck von der Pfalz--Bernd found in 6th
3rd place Asko vom Siegelgrund--Bernd found in 6th

1991
1st place Link van Muikenshof--Bernd 5th and 7th, Bodo 7th
2nd place Asko vom Siegelgrund--Bernd found in 6th
3rd place Boss von der Maineiche--5th Dolf Lierberg

1990
1st place Leo von der Doddo--Bernd found in 6th
2nd place Fado von Karthago--5th,5th,4th linebred on Bernd
3rd place Derry von Bergblick--5th Dolf Lierberg


1989
1st place Fado von Karthago--5th,5th,4th linebred on Bernd
2nd place Iwo vom Lauterstein--No Bernd but his father in 6th and 7th

3rd place Polo vom Glögglweg could not find pedigree

1988
1st place Hassan van Haus Moons-- Could not find pedigree
2nd place Iwo vom Lauterstein--No Bernd but his father Vello zu den Sieben-Faulen in 6th and 7th

3rd place Aaron vom Prielberg 5-5 linebreeding on Bernd

 Quote:

What are your opinions?

Hi Tracy!
I am no expert on working German Shepherds, but AM a pedigree-studying-fool within my own breed. I totally understand how a whole entire DAY can fly by once you get sucked into pedigree researching. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

One thing you may want to check....how many of the NON top 3 dogs also have the same dog in the pedigree? A popular-sire of the time can often be found frighteningly frequently in a broad range of pedigrees. 7 generations also isn't that close, although depending on how much line breeding has been done within a pedigree, those generations can actually have an equal or greater impact (percentage of blood) on a breeding than even a grandsire or granddam.

Now, if that dog *isn't* showing up with the same frequency across the board, *then* you are on to something.

T

Hi, Tracy. The reason I posted this I'm researching for my next pup and looking for working lines that can produce conformation and more importantly traits for schutzhund. If, I had the time I'd love to take all 100 plus dogs for each year and research them but don't have that much time.

I'm sure the majority trace back to Bernd. I posted this to also show the last great show dog that could work and produce is still living in the top dogs of sch. It can not be a coincidence that almost every single dog that place in the top 3 has Bernd in their pedigree. 22 of 54 had Bernd in their 5 generation which is as far back as most people look.

When you add Bernds parents,sons, daughters and grandchildren inside the 5 gen pedigree plus those progeny of half brother
V Jalk vom Fohlenbrunnen who is also found in most of the dogs listed. Then divided number of Bernd progeny and siblings progeny you'll see how much he shaped working dogs that excel in schutzhund.

Fado von Karthago is consider a good producer if you look at him stopping with Bernd's and half brother V Jalk vom Fohlenbrunnen grandchildren that equals 19.3% of 5 generation pedigree.

One of my favorites Orry von Haus Antverpa out of 7 generations Bernd and progeny would equal 7.8 %