I have spent the better part of two hours searching for the answer and have thoroughly enjoyed reading the post but I can’t find an answer to the specific problem I am having.

BRIEF HISTORY: I am trying to retrain a Schh3 GSD (while training myself in the process) who was previously force trained and arrived 3 months ago with no detectable prey drive. We have made huge progress and I am seeing a much happier dog as well as the bond between us is growing. She was so very serious and business like for the first 2 months and now she is showing playfulness and relaxation… Yet she is still all business when appropriate like when a stranger comes to the door… etc.

Her drive for the prey is building by the day. In the last week it has been me that calls it quit not her and that is after she has thoroughly tuckered me out. At first she would lose interest if she did receive the reward within 5 – 10 seconds. Now she will go at least a minute in drive and her interest is there. (I haven’t even tried more then that) Since she is a SchH3 she has a firm solid grip. Once she catches the prey I have never successfully taken it from her unless I Aus her, which I try not to do very often since I am trying to build her drive. Her out is Excellent by-the-way.

THE PROBLEM. As soon as I stop fighting with her or take tension off the toy she drops it within a couple seconds. As soon as I make a move for it she is right back in drive.

I try to keep her running like in Finks video and that will work for about 10 second before she drops it. If I try “into my arms” she drops it, but she is more then ready to go as soon as I reengage her.

MY QUESTIONS: What is the purpose for keeping the prey in her mouth once the fight has stopped? I am assuming there is a fundamental reason why Fink trains that the dog should not drop the toy. My assumption is that it is related to building their grip. Since her grip is already established and she is not mouthy… is there any reason other reason I should be encouraging her to keep the prey in her mouth once the fight has stopped.

MY IMPRESSION: When I watch the Schutzhund training videos and trails, it appears the out comes when the helper stops moving. I am thinking that she is anticipating the out when the prey stops moving.

Here is a video of a recent grip workout. The intense panting in the background is me behind the camera ready to die:p <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> and she just keeps on going. I only wish I had her stamina.

http://www.references-etc.com/marsha/grip.mpg

Julia,
As with anything patterns form if done enough. One method you can use for correcting this is to give the fight and relax for a second or so and start the fight again. Each time make it a little longer without the fight. Keep a close eye on the dog and if you notice any change like he is going to out the toy immediately start again. I would not out the dog at this point anymore until he is staying on reliably. I would end it with him loosing the object and wanting more.

Good luck

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If it is only to help a green dog to build a firm steady bite… then all the effort to train her to hold the prey might be better spent on some other aspect of her training since she already has a firm steady bite.

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but I don’t want to waste my time either if the only purpose is to build a strong bit in a new dog…

A dog's firm grip is greatly affected by the dog's confidence and bond with it's handler. Ths work is not just to create a strong bite in the dog. This work is to create a bond with the handler. There is no wasted time in building a strong bond with your dog.

Jason is correct. Also, if she has already dropped it, whip it away from her and make her work harder to get it. Never let her go back to a dropped prey item.

This is shown in the Drive Focus and Grip DVD. I learn something new every time I watch it!

Thanks Anne,

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Never let her go back to a dropped prey item.

I don't let her have it back without making her earn it again. Honestly, I think she likes the chase as much as she likes the win and I agree that our bound has grown 1000 folds since we have drawn out her prey drive. She is actually spontaneously playful… which was unthinkable even a couple weeks ago. I have watched the finks DVD 3 times in a month and I also learned something new each time. I will watch many more times I am certain.

I just don’t want to nag or knit pick her to death and turn off or damage the relationship/progress we have made. She had *none* when she arrived in August and it has been a major challenge to get her to interested… but she is now and I want to make sure it stays that way.

Thanks again! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ann and Julia both make correct posts. I will just add a couple of things.

1- Remember it takes 4 or 5 times longer to untrain a behavior than it does to train it correctly the first place.

2- Off the training field (in your living room) teach the dog to come into your arm and stand calmly. Teach this as a an obedience exercise. When in the arm use your voice to calm the dog and tell her how much you love her.

This exericse is where she learns to be comfortable in your arm. When you see she learns to relax and like this position then do it on walks. Without the tug. Then in areas of distraction. (THIS ALL TAKES TIME)


3-NOt sure what kind of line is on the tug but have it be a light line. When you bring the dog into your arms - keep a littled tension on you line and in the beginning only keep her in your arm for 1 second before you fight again.

Sucess is measured one second at a time.

Done underestimate the value of your dog finding out the most comfortable spot on earth is in your arms.

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Sucess is measured one second at a time.

Ed,
This is a simple yet awesome truth about dog-training, and one of the most difficult to get through people's heads. Those who embrace it, like Julia has, go on to great success with their dogs.
T

Ed,

You are awesome. Thanks you so much for this site and your wisdom. My dog thanks you!

I had to do this with one of my females that I bought as an older dog who ahd not gone through this work as a puppy. It worked for me. Glad it gave you ideas top try.