May 13, 2011
Our 11 month old shepherd will not do a “down stay” and he seems to be very dominant. What shall we do?
Full Question:
My husband and I bought a German Shepherd pup at 4 1/2 months of age from a professional breeder with several past champions. We wanted to make sure we were purchasing a dog with a good pedigree and excellent temperament. The dog is now 11 months old and we are extremely disappointed and ready to give it back to the breeder. We don't know if it is our problem in training or the dog is the problem.The dog will obey my husband most of the time and will listen when he tells him to sit/stay or down/stay, I have a difficult time getting him to obey me. He will listen most of the time to sit but he will not stay for long and getting him in the down position is one of the most frustrating things I have to deal with. He fights me all the way and it takes several times before he will listen and I'm on the verge of tears and frustrated. Sometimes it gets to the point where if he won't listen I will just put him outside so I won't have to deal with him. He jumps up on everyone in the family and I have a 4 1/2 year old daughter and 7 month old son, so I am very concerned about that. He has made her cry several times and is constantly grabbing her clothes or biting her to play with her. We are there at all times and supervise but we are constantly saying NO MAX! and I will grab him by the neck and shake him and look him in the eye. I can control him if it's just me or my husband in the room most of the time but all it takes is for my daughter to walk in and he's jumping all over running around the room and getting all excited and grabbing anything he can get like my children's toys or clothes. I have gotten him chew toys so he would have something of his own that he knows is only his to chew on but it doesn't seem to sink in no matter how much we tell him NO!
We have taken him to Dog Obedience School in a group which I realize you don't recommend. He knows how to heel, sit, stay, down. The problem is he won't listen to me all the time and I want him to be an obedient dog at all times around people and it's not turning out that way. He seems very bull headed and extremely dominant. Nothing we've tried seems to help and we're ready to get rid of him if he doesn't get any better. That is the last resort. We don't want to give up on him. We know that GSD's mature between 18 months and 2 years so we don't know if it's just puppy behavior and he will eventually calm down or he just wants to be the alpha dog in the house. He is outside during the day and has the run of the back yard and I bring him in at night. We want him to be a part of the family and a watch dog for us. But it is hard to bond with a dog that your always yelling at and won't respond to your commands unless he wants to or is put on a short leash and is forced in the down position and made to stay. What should we do with him and what are we doing wrong? Please help!
Ed's Answer:
It is always difficult to try and solve complicated problems without seeing the dog in action. This situation sounds like there are several factors affecting the solution.
People that lack experience tend to think they are getting a good dog when it comes from Champion bloodlines. The mention of "Champion Bloodlines' indicated an American bloodline vs. a German bloodline dog. In effect the working ability has been bred out of these dogs. The only thing they are bred to do is to run in a circle and look pretty. There is no consideration given to temperament or working ability in American bloodlines. The AKC (American Kennel Club) and the GSDA (German Shepherd Dog Club of America) have destroyed the working ability and temperament of the American bred Shepherd.
So, this is where the problem began. What you thought you were buying and what you bought are two different things. It could be worse, you could have bought an American German Shepherd with the intention of wanting some form of a personal protection dog. I compare that to buying a local farm horse with the intention of running him in the Kentucky Derby. The odds of getting protection work out of an American bloodline dog are about the same.
The dominance issue is something else. There is a difference between dominance and being stubborn. If the dog shows possessiveness towards his food bowl or toys or dog crate by growling. Then these are early warning signs of Dominica. In this case I recommend that you neuter the dog if you plan on keeping him. Keep in mind that if there is a possibility of you not keeping him, it is often times more difficult to sell a neutered dog.
Dogs will show dominance over children or other dogs by playing with them and then when the dog or child is down on the ground, the dominant dog will stand over the top of the other dog or child and stare down at them. I call this bracing. It’s their way of establishing dominance. The first time you see him standing over (bracing) one of your children when the child is laying on the floor you need to recognize this as a sign of this dog trying to establish pack order with that child. It's time to either get very serious about showing that dog where he stands in the pack or get rid of the dog. Don't gamble with your child's safety.
At 10 or 11 months a dog is basically a puppy. He does not have any fight drive to back up a good swift kick in the butt. In other words if you correct him and he would growl at you, you correct him twice as hard. At 11 months he is not mature enough to challenge you for pack authority. Now, this may not be the case 6 or 12 months from now. A two year old dog is mature enough to say, "You are going to treat me like this, I am going to show you who's boss and then we will see who is going to tell who what to do around here!" At that point, the only thing left to do is to get rid of the dog to either an experienced handler or put that dog to sleep.
This dog is an adolescent. He is immature and in reality untrained. This is part of the reason for the way he is acting. It sounds like he does not get enough attention. I say that because of the comments on how he acts when the kids come into the room. I would recommend getting a good metal dog crate and keep it near the living area where you spend the most time. Keep the dog in this crate. This accomplishes a couple of things: it gives the dog the feeling of being part of the family unit but also does not allow him to be crazy. Later, when he proves himself, he can be allowed to be loose as long as he is not too wild. If he gets wild - then back in the crate. The odds are you will only need to use the crate until he is about 24 months old.
The last problem seems to be a handler problem. The dog does not respect you. Until you are prepared to teach this dog that he has to mind and if he does not mind you are fully capable of giving a meaningful correction, he will never respect your commands. I recommend the tape we have titled Basic Dog Obedience. Some people are not prepared to get a prong collar and give a dog the kind of correction that is necessary. Other people have problems with consistency. They can give a good correction but are not constant. They are willing to correct the dog one time but don't do it another time. This only creates problems like you have.
If your dog wore a prong collar with a short leash (18 inches long) all the time and he knew that every time he disobeyed a command he would get a level 10 correction, he would quickly develop a new respect for the spoken word.
Lastly, dogs are not robots. You need to allow some free time. This does not mean that he is allowed to be crazy in the house but if he is calm he should be allowed to be free. Maybe one or two walks a day would help settle him down. Walk him on a prong collar and a Flexi lead. Take him out in the back yard and throw the ball for 5 minutes in the snow. Let him burn off some of this pent-up energy.
I have written an article called Will My Family Be Safe with My Protection Trained Dog? If you are interested in more information on dominance in dogs, read this article.
People that lack experience tend to think they are getting a good dog when it comes from Champion bloodlines. The mention of "Champion Bloodlines' indicated an American bloodline vs. a German bloodline dog. In effect the working ability has been bred out of these dogs. The only thing they are bred to do is to run in a circle and look pretty. There is no consideration given to temperament or working ability in American bloodlines. The AKC (American Kennel Club) and the GSDA (German Shepherd Dog Club of America) have destroyed the working ability and temperament of the American bred Shepherd.
So, this is where the problem began. What you thought you were buying and what you bought are two different things. It could be worse, you could have bought an American German Shepherd with the intention of wanting some form of a personal protection dog. I compare that to buying a local farm horse with the intention of running him in the Kentucky Derby. The odds of getting protection work out of an American bloodline dog are about the same.
The dominance issue is something else. There is a difference between dominance and being stubborn. If the dog shows possessiveness towards his food bowl or toys or dog crate by growling. Then these are early warning signs of Dominica. In this case I recommend that you neuter the dog if you plan on keeping him. Keep in mind that if there is a possibility of you not keeping him, it is often times more difficult to sell a neutered dog.
Dogs will show dominance over children or other dogs by playing with them and then when the dog or child is down on the ground, the dominant dog will stand over the top of the other dog or child and stare down at them. I call this bracing. It’s their way of establishing dominance. The first time you see him standing over (bracing) one of your children when the child is laying on the floor you need to recognize this as a sign of this dog trying to establish pack order with that child. It's time to either get very serious about showing that dog where he stands in the pack or get rid of the dog. Don't gamble with your child's safety.
At 10 or 11 months a dog is basically a puppy. He does not have any fight drive to back up a good swift kick in the butt. In other words if you correct him and he would growl at you, you correct him twice as hard. At 11 months he is not mature enough to challenge you for pack authority. Now, this may not be the case 6 or 12 months from now. A two year old dog is mature enough to say, "You are going to treat me like this, I am going to show you who's boss and then we will see who is going to tell who what to do around here!" At that point, the only thing left to do is to get rid of the dog to either an experienced handler or put that dog to sleep.
This dog is an adolescent. He is immature and in reality untrained. This is part of the reason for the way he is acting. It sounds like he does not get enough attention. I say that because of the comments on how he acts when the kids come into the room. I would recommend getting a good metal dog crate and keep it near the living area where you spend the most time. Keep the dog in this crate. This accomplishes a couple of things: it gives the dog the feeling of being part of the family unit but also does not allow him to be crazy. Later, when he proves himself, he can be allowed to be loose as long as he is not too wild. If he gets wild - then back in the crate. The odds are you will only need to use the crate until he is about 24 months old.
The last problem seems to be a handler problem. The dog does not respect you. Until you are prepared to teach this dog that he has to mind and if he does not mind you are fully capable of giving a meaningful correction, he will never respect your commands. I recommend the tape we have titled Basic Dog Obedience. Some people are not prepared to get a prong collar and give a dog the kind of correction that is necessary. Other people have problems with consistency. They can give a good correction but are not constant. They are willing to correct the dog one time but don't do it another time. This only creates problems like you have.
If your dog wore a prong collar with a short leash (18 inches long) all the time and he knew that every time he disobeyed a command he would get a level 10 correction, he would quickly develop a new respect for the spoken word.
Lastly, dogs are not robots. You need to allow some free time. This does not mean that he is allowed to be crazy in the house but if he is calm he should be allowed to be free. Maybe one or two walks a day would help settle him down. Walk him on a prong collar and a Flexi lead. Take him out in the back yard and throw the ball for 5 minutes in the snow. Let him burn off some of this pent-up energy.
I have written an article called Will My Family Be Safe with My Protection Trained Dog? If you are interested in more information on dominance in dogs, read this article.
33% (1 out of 3)
respondents found this answer helpful
Can't find what you're looking for?
33% (1 out of 3)
respondents found this answer helpful
