We are searching for a female GSD puppy for Schutzhund training/competition/protection and companion dog. We are considering Kraftwerk, Von Waldberg, and Mittelwest. The pup at Mittelwest is already 10 weeks old and my impression not leashed trained or otherwise worked with. If anyone has experience with these kennels I would love to hear your input.

Out of those, 2 are showline breeders. If you are serious about schutzhund, then you need to look at working lines instead. The other I've always thought is way overpriced. You can find good working line pups for 1k-1800.

I find it interesting that for Sieger placement the dogs have to be Schutzhund certified and many are Sch3. So, they have to have some working ability. I understand that though that show and working dogs are two different animals. I hope to find a balance with brawn, smarts, drive, and beauty (if there is such a find). Mittelwest was very busy so we didn't have much time to talk. We will visit Kraftwerk and Von Waldberg next week. I was also wondering if bringing home a 10-11 week puppy who hasn't been removed from the litter yet would have socialization problems, or am I over reacting?

I maybe wrong but I was under the impression that its better for the larger breed dogs to stay with its littermates until about 10-12 weeks.

I am in exact agreement with Angela here.

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I find it interesting that for Sieger placement the dogs have to be Schutzhund certified and many are Sch3. So, they have to have some working ability. I was also wondering if bringing home a 10-11 week puppy who hasn't been removed from the litter yet would have socialization problems, or am I over reacting?

Many of the males are sch3, many of the females just sch1. It's rare to see a showline female that's sch3. Watch the seiger show, see the bitework, etc. Then go see working lines work. You'd be amazed at the difference. At 10-11 wks old they shouldn't be with the littermates but seperated from them. If I have any that are that age, they all have their own crates and their own areas. Very limited time together.

I guess my information was very incorrect then,but I'm not a breeder <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Beth I sent you a PM.

Jamie

I would support what the others have said. If you want a Schutzhund/Competition/Protection dog I would look to the workingline breeders. You are much more likely to get a pup from those breeders who would be competitive at the higher levels in Schutzhund and capable of being a solid protection dog. That isn't to say that a showline dog couldn't do that, just that the odds are much better in your favor with a workingline dog. Also, the cost quoted by Angela should be a good target for what you have to pay to get a quality puppy - any more and you're likely paying for hype (just my opinion!)

I do have a showline dog myself who I train in French Ring and in protection. While he seems to be an anomoly, I don't pretend that he would go out and win the BSP anytime soon.

What we don't know is the level of competition/ability and protection you are looking for. The best way to make sure that you are matched with the right dog is to go and meet the parents and the adult dogs from these breeders (preferably at a working venue - the schutzhund club or a competition). This will give you the best feel for the type of dog your pup is likely to be - and ensure you have the best match for your goals and training experience.

One thought might be to visit some local schutzhund clubs where you could meet some of the trainers and other owners and get a good feel for the type of training and the type of pup you want.

Finally, if you have very serious protection needs and/or want to compete at very high levels it might be a good approach to purchase an older dog with some training. Even dogs from the best bloodlines don't necessarily turn out to be the best competition dogs or serious protection dogs and buying a dog who's already been tested and trained by someone like Will (or the quality trainers - some who are also on this board)

Good luck,

Alan...