When i give my dog a command, 50-75% of the time she won't do what I said until I tell her "no".

She knows the command, but it seems like she is choosing not to listen until she hears "no". She knows that a correction follows "no", so she is quick to respond to the "no".

What am I doing wrong here? She should sit when I say sit, down when I say down, and come when I say come. I should not have to follow each command with down because she is ignoring my original command.

Thoughts?

 Quote: kevin easton

When i give my dog a command, 50-75% of the time she won't do what I said until I tell her "no".

She knows the command, but it seems like she is choosing not to listen until she hears "no". She knows that a correction follows "no", so she is quick to respond to the "no".

What am I doing wrong here? She should sit when I say sit, down when I say down, and come when I say come. I should not have to follow each command with down because she is ignoring my original command.

Thoughts?

Sounds like you think the dog dreamed this up.

How did you train the dog to wait for the word no? I am seriously asking this. How did you train sit, for example? How did the word no get into the command?

Let me rephrase this.

Did you train the commands with markers? Treats? How?

When you say "she knows the command," I'm inclined to disagree. It sounds like she knows a few commands if they are followed by "no."

If the marker and the reward are timely, then "no" doesn't happen.

I'm not criticising, believe me. There is no handler who never trained something s/he didn't set out to train. (A nice example is training the dog that the recall means "run around and be chased." :grin

I trained with markers and basically followed Ed's Obedience DVD.

If I stand in front of her with a treat in my hand, I can say sit, down, sit, down and have her going up and down with each command. That's if she can see or smell the treat.

Other times I have to tell her down. I then wait for her to respond and when she doesn't go down, she gets a "no" for not listening.

Is there something else I should be doing?

 Quote: kevin easton

I trained with markers and basically followed Ed's Obedience DVD.

If I stand in front of her with a treat in my hand, I can say sit, down, sit, down and have her going up and down with each command. That's if she can see or smell the treat.

Other times I have to tell her down. I then wait for her to respond and when she doesn't go down, she gets a "no" for not listening.

Is there something else I should be doing?

Well, "no" for "not listening" ....... a double negative ..... does she know why you are saying "no"?

But I'd back up. That doggy-pushup routine with a treat is fun, but has nothing much to do with "sit," say, on a regular basis.

I'd go back and work with the sit or down or whichever, several times a day (short), first making sure she knows it on its own (outside the routine you describe), and then asking for it before the walk, before the meal, before petting, etc., etc.

The routine is fun, but it's the dailiness of each command that counts, I think. So I'd back up and concentrate on each one for a few days, I think.

Also, maybe the treats after each successful command were not gradually reduced to, say, one in three? And so on?

Just some ideas! :>

I make her sit before going outside, as soon as we get out the door, before we cross the street, before she eats, before she comes in from outside, before I will pet her.

While we are walking I will stop and make her sit on the sidewalk every 50 feet or so.

I'm 90% confident that she knows the command. I just think she
doesn't think she has to do it until I say no. She knows that once I say no and she doesn't listen, then she gets a correction.

The other problem may be (and I think it is) is that my fiance also deals with the dog. I do the training and spend more time with the dog, but she also interacts with the dog. I don't think she is consistent like I am and that may be an issue as well.

Hi Kevin. Why does your dog get a "no for not listening" rather than an appropriate correction for not doing the original command? (and an appropriate praise/reward once the command is done?)

I'm betting that Ed's DVD on obedience recommends a sequence of "command - reward if done - correction if not done - reward when done" and I'm betting that Ed also recommends that during training, a command not be given unless reinforcement (correction and/or reward) CAN be given.

I would think about what you are considering as "commands." "Sit-no" and "down-no" are not commands around here anyway.

Since we train on the field for Schutzhund, but our dogs also live with us in the house, we have also figured out some "compromises." i.e. the recall command for field training "Hier" where it can ALWAYS be reinforced unless we're in proof mode, is NEVER used in the house when there is not solid reinforcement available.

(and I realize that our dogs could both be "better" on the field if they were not house dogs - that's a compromise that we've given careful though to, and accepted the consequences of!)

Hope this helps and is not too confusing.

Beth

Had this problem with my female doberman when we started off leash. we just pushed hard and gave a strong corection with the no when doesn't obey and tons of praise when she does. with me after working the dog for a long time the verbal no is the corection and is generaly all it takes maybe you are not being strong enough with your physical corrections. Better one firm than one hundred weak. E collar helped as well

Had this problem with my female doberman when we started off leash. we just pushed hard and gave a strong corection with the no when doesn't obey and tons of praise when she does. with me after working the dog for a long time the verbal no is the corection and is generaly all it takes maybe you are not being strong enough with your physical corrections. Better one firm than one hundred weak. E collar helped as well

Kevin,

What you are doing is what Ed does in his Remote Collar DVD. I haven't been through his new basic obedience DVD yet, but I seem to remember that in the old one he also used "no" as a warning, with the correction coming 1 - 2 seconds after saying "no".