 Could use help with a reward delivery problem
#165250 - 11/28/2007 07:36 AM |
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Cadaver not bomb but put it here because no cadaver category dog is primarily working offlead
Issue is my right shoulder is shot
Highest paycheck reward is tug, followed by ball
I have difficulty hitting source with a tug and really need to use a two handled tug since I have been pulled off my feet several times using only one hand and a tug small enough to throw, plus the shoulder really hurts afterwards.
Have started throwing ball at source which can be aimed with much more precision and more discretely, then quickly presenting the tug - ball gets dropped for tug reward.
It seems to work real well but am I setting myself up for problems bridging the reward that way? He will work all day long for just a ball but the tug is much more of a reward and is only used during training so it is "special"
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Re: Could use help with a reward delivery problem
[Re: Nancy Jocoy ]
#165263 - 11/28/2007 08:15 AM |
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How about a ball on a rope? The ball for ease of delivery, the rope to play tug.
DFrost
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again. |
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Re: Could use help with a reward delivery problem
[Re: David C.Frost ]
#165267 - 11/28/2007 08:32 AM |
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I have used as at tug that but it kills my arm and hand and throws me off balance.
I seem to be able to keep my balance better with two hands on the tug spread apart.
I know I may have to suck it up and just hurt. That's why I was wondering what kind of problems this change might cause or if it made sense.
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Re: Could use help with a reward delivery problem
[Re: Nancy Jocoy ]
#165274 - 11/28/2007 08:47 AM |
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Nancy,
What are the major changes in his behavior that make the tug better than the ball?
My Mal is all tug, but she also goes ape for a ball. The reason I use the tug is so that I can bring away from a "crime scene" and not have to worry about her damaging evidence by throwing a ball around. (thank goodness she likes the ball as I did use that and still do once in a while when my elbow was splinted up) Plus, I LOVE a dog that will play a good game of tug......
How big is your tug? I have started using the pocket tugs that LB sells and they are great to "target" with.
Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter |
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Re: Could use help with a reward delivery problem
[Re: Carol Boche ]
#165310 - 11/28/2007 10:21 AM |
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Carol that is really a good question - He likes both very much but maybe I am not so sure which is strongest. But tug is easier to do ONLY when doing cadaver work and easier to control (except for the sore arm and getting pulled off my feet)
If I throw a ball while we are playing tug he will let go of the tug, retrieve the ball, drop it and lanch back on the tug. He does not "carry the ball" back when we are finished like he does with his tug (or even a ball on a string); he just drops it.
I have used the ball on string (I like the cressite floating one) and the one handled 8" bite tug.
I would like to know what problems may evolve with the approach I suggested since, for the short term, it seems to be working real well.
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Re: Could use help with a reward delivery problem
[Re: Nancy Jocoy ]
#165312 - 11/28/2007 10:26 AM |
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Sounds like the tug is stronger since he drops the ball to come back.....however, what if you took the tug totally out of the equation? Will he bring it back to play fetch, or carry it back?
Doesn't sound like it would be a terribly difficult switch......does he like those floppy discs at all?
Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter |
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Re: Could use help with a reward delivery problem
[Re: Carol Boche ]
#165322 - 11/28/2007 10:54 AM |
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Unless I have something to swap (e.g., a 2nd ball to throw) and he knows it he just drops the ball. He only brings it back if there is a trade of sorts (a game with a tug or 2-ball).
With the tug he tends to carry it off, but we come right back if I call him in for a good tug. On lead no problem, I can just present the tug and hold onto the other end.
After a find as soon as the toy is put away he is right back to work.
I don't know about the floppy disks......but it seems they would be even harder to aim.
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Re: Could use help with a reward delivery problem
[Re: Nancy Jocoy ]
#165323 - 11/28/2007 10:56 AM |
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Yeah, floppy discs are kind of tough to target...my bad.
I would try the two ball method, or get some really good pain killers. 
Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter |
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Re: Could use help with a reward delivery problem
[Re: Carol Boche ]
#165325 - 11/28/2007 11:09 AM |
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Then if two ball, why not ball then tug only with a two handled one?
Just trying to see if my logic is screwed up.
For his small size (70#) he is one hell of a tugger. On the boat, I have to brace my feet against the platform as I have been pulled off the seat.
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Re: Could use help with a reward delivery problem
[Re: Nancy Jocoy ]
#165326 - 11/28/2007 11:11 AM |
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Then if two ball, why not ball then tug only with a two handled one?
Ummm, because you said it hurt your shoulder.......  
Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter |
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