Hey,

We all know on this forum that GSD breeders are a dime-a-dozen. That's a given. That's the problem... Too many breeders that don't know what they're doing will raise rotten-tempered, scared dogs. That is what I am most definitely trying to avoid. I'm here to ask a couple questions of you, the loyal forum-folk that are around and hopefully get some great help as always. Well, here goes.

I live in the GTA (near Toronto, Ontario, Canada for those that don't know, :P) and I'm in search of a reputable, friendly, knowledgeable, pure-bred GSD breeder. Would prefer CKC registered, full breeding rights, but that's not my #1 priority. First priority is a well tempered, high drive pup. Will be my first competition dog. Doesn't have to have litters available right this second, I'm looking to gain a new friend at the end of the summer, around late Aug/Sept. Colours/sex: no preference.

Other than going to semi-local SchH clubs and asking around (which I don't have time for atm) and not trusting most websites found on google, this is the best place to ask. Hopefully you have some personal ties with a breeder from the GTA (ie. you've worked with them before either training/or as a customer/friend). I appreciate any and all sorts of information you could throw my way .

Thanks, Alex.

If this is going to be your first competition dog ( as you have indicated ) I'd suggest finding the time to visit those SchH clubs that you've mentioned.

Putting time into proper selection of your dog will save you a lot of time and possible grief in the future. Don't short change yourself during this vital part of the process - time spent now will pay off big time on the field.

Honestly, do yourself and your upcoming dog a favor and do the right thing, if it's harder right now......

That's the plan, Will. I'm trying to cross-reference, if you will, breeders that some will mention here with any breeders that are recommended from any of the SchH clubs.

Another thing, for anyone in the 'know'... I've heard Ed, in his videos, talk about his flawless tests to find out exactly the kind of temperament and drive of the dog in question. Anyone have any sort of info on tests like this? Online searching brings up stuff like 'throw a ball and see if it chases it' or 'does it run to the food dish right away?' Kinda obvious answers I thought, but are there other tests? Just curious.

Thanks, Alex.

Alex,
This is the Leerburg link to the Flinks puppy selection test.
I've used this method for several years and I've been very happy with it:

http://www.leerburg.com/puppytest1.htm

 Quote: Will Rambeau

This is the Leerburg link to the Flinks puppy selection test.
I've used this method for several years and I've been very happy with it:

http://www.leerburg.com/puppytest1.htm

I've heard about this test Will and understands how it works for working prospects. But one thing I'm not sure of if you could clarify how it works to get the overall summary of the test.

I see the top end of the test to get a pure working PS dog. But what about the other levels of the spectrum? Do you get dogs that are only good as pets or something else maybe sport or tracking only?

What I'm trying to ask is where would pups fit in .. that scored in the middle or low end of this test?

Thanks in advance

That I don't know. Someone PM'd me with another site that has these tests. They've produced videos that explains them somewhat and that shows how they do some of these tests. Check out the Kraftwerk K9 website: http://www.kraftwerkk9.com/ and look at the puppy section and it'll be in the top frame. It's helpful.

Geoff,
I've heard Bernhard Flinks give the puppy evaluation speech around seven times in the past five years and I was lucky enough for him to have evaluated the litter personally that I got Fetz out of.

But there is *so* much information in that discussion that even I wouldn't be able to type that much.

Can you ask specific questions about the parts that you're interested in?
And I'm sure that other forum members that have heard Bernhards lectures can add to this discussion also.

Nice to have Bernard to be able to evaluate your dogs litter I can't imagine it getting any better than that!

I'd love to be able to attend a Flinks Seminar one day. Just now I've gone down the path of French Ring vs Shutzhund.

 Quote: Will Rambeau

Can you ask specific questions about the parts that you're interested in?

Well the part for example ..

 Quote: Test 6.

(Laying on his back)

1-Lies confidently and relaxed, legs and paws are relaxed (positive)
2-Turns energetically and confidently, eventually becomes aggressive (positive)
3-Lies calmly, but tense, legs and paws are stiff.
4-Shows clear signs of fear.
5-Panicky behavior, urinates.

The first 2 show positive results, and the rest are negative.

I know my dog when she was a pup did #2 for this test. Now if she did #1 would that indicate a score better for work or is it one of the same? Plus would the negative results have different levels of negative?

That's what I am trying to figure out is the summary of what the test results mean. I'm sure if I saw a completed puppy evaluation for a pup for non work vs work and what it's recommendations were it would make total sense.

Excellent question!

Ok, here's how I remember Bernhard explaining it:


The number one response will be a calmer, focused dog( this is the type that Bernhard likes to trial with ).
The number two response is equally as good, but indicates more of higher drive dog with dominant traits.

So it becomes:
Do you want that golden middle, focused dog for points points points!

Or are you willing to work the higher drive dog and put up with the dominant quirks for the possibly super dog finished product ( but risk the problems entailed with a harder to handle dog )

So it's the classic equation...risk vs. reward.
So a handler needs to look at his own skills and resources and decide for himself.

Fetz was a number two for that test ( I'm sure everyone's just startled at that.. )

Does that help to make sense of it?

And besides risk vs. reward, might some people want to factor in energy level, and can they do it with #2? Not even necessarily managing the dog, but keeping up with the dog?

People who are, say, pushing 60? Theoretically.