Another active topic about rabies vacs mentioned titers.

I was under the impression that a titer test does not show immunity, but rather if the body is actively producing antibodies for whatever is being titered for.

Example: A dog is immune to parvo, but hasn't come into contact with parvo virus for a long period of time. Wouldn't that dog show a low titer?

Vice versa, a dog is immune to parvo, and has come into contact with parvo virus recently. Wouldn't that dog show a high titer?

 Quote:

A dog is immune to parvo, but hasn't come into contact with parvo virus for a long period of time. Wouldn't that dog show a low titer?

Correct.

Here is an article on this topic:

http://www.caberfeidh.com/Titers.htm

Do any states accept titering in lieu of rabies vaccinatio.

I don't believe any states accept rabies titers in lieu of vaccination at the present time.

Dr. Jean Dodds is currently behind a Rabies Challenge Study that is underway. The Study is to determine the duration of immunity conveyed by rabies vaccines. The goal is to extend the required interval for rabies boosters to 5 and then to 7 years.

Rabies Challenge Fund

Katie

I have been thinking a lot about this, tell me if I'm wrong.

Titeres only show that you currently have antibodies in the blood stream. This means the dog has been recently exposed to the virus and the memory cells are producing the antibodies. If the dog has had no exposure they can have no antibodies yet still be immune. So a titer can't really always tell you if the dog has immunity, it would be possible to get a negative titre and still be immune.

Now for diseases like parvo the virus is every where, so the likelyhood of exposure is high, and the dog should almost always have some antibodies in his system. But for a disease like rabies, the chances of exposure to the virus are almost zero. So it seems that a titer for rabies would be highly likely to show nothing, even though the dog does in fact have immunity.

I could be wrong though. I am very interested in following the study by Dr. Dodds. But this reasoning makes me wonder how it will work. If the dog hasn't been exposed to the rabies virus, will the titers after 2,3,even 5 years show anything? Or will they have to somehow expose the dogs to a killed virus to get a response? But isn't that the same as vacinating?

I am relly fascinated by all this, and look forward to input from people who know more than me!

 Quote: shody lytle

Now for diseases like parvo the virus is every where, so the likelyhood of exposure is high, and the dog should almost always have some antibodies in his system. But for a disease like rabies, the chances of exposure to the virus are almost zero. So it seems that a titer for rabies would be highly likely to show nothing, even though the dog does in fact have immunity.

Hi Shody! Well, I certainly don't know MORE than you, and I think you've got everything straight there, however I'm not sure it's accurate to say that high titer results for rare diseases like rabies are "highly unlikely". I titered Oscar for rabies last fall - a year and half after his initial rabies vax. The results showed above average antibody levels... and I'm pretty darn sure it wasn't because he'd been cavorting with rabid raccoons and foxes just before the test!

Rabies titers are mandatory for overseas travel (which is why we titered Oscar) and I don't think they would be useful if most of the previously vaccinated dogs who got them showed low or zero levels of antibodies - not saying that doesn't happen, and maybe most dogs preparing for travel HAVE just been vaccinated, in preparation, but my hunch is that a lot of dogs DO show at least acceptable antibody levels for years after their vaccinations. Don't ask me how though!

For the Dodds study, my hunch is that we'll learn more about titer testing and how to interpret the results at the same time that we learn about the longevity of the immunity itself. These studies are all about looking at things from many angles in order to verify any conclusions - titers will be another tool for analyzing data.

This subject is a complex one that just hasn't been studied thoroughly enough to offer an answer to every question (go Dr. Dodds!) - which is frustrating when trying to figure out what's best for your dog! I plan to titer Oscar again when his 3-year rabies vax are legally due again (next year), just to see what the results are (a "low" result won't prompt me to re-vax) but I'm leaning towards no more vaccinations for him, for anything.

~Natalya

*That Caber Feidh deerhounds site is really wonderful, BTW - loads of articles that break things down for lay people like me.

Thanks for the input. I don't logically understand how it works either! I have heard from people who think titers are worthless, and people who swear by them. It's interesting that Oscar showed such good immunity so long after his vaccine. I have been really wrestling with this whole issue because my dog will be a year old soon, and I don't want to vaccinate him any more. But for some reason I still feel the need to justify my actions I guess. And then there is the mandatory rabies vaccines.....And Cal. won't accept titers for this. So do I just titer for my own piece of mind, and not vaccinate again for this unless I get "caught"? or need to travel?

I don't really have a problem with the others, as I have stated before, if he wasn't immune he would most likely have gotten sick by now with all the places I have taken him. My vet doesn't normaly do titers, but will. And if he is imune from his puppy shots, he won't get more immune than he is now, you either are or aren't.

It is a very complex issue, isn't it?

 Quote: shody lytle

Thanks for the input. I don't logically understand how it works either! I have heard from people who think titers are worthless, and people who swear by them.

A good overview:

http://www.caberfeidh.com/Titers.htm

The important line (to me): "So what does a low or zero titer tell you? Nothing much. A high titer is strongly correlated with either recent infection or good immunity, but the opposite isn't true."

and

".... for every person who has his or her mind relieved by finding his or her dog "has a titer" to a disease they were worried about, there is someone else who now thinks his or her dog or cat is "unprotected" against a disease to which they are most likely really immune."

So titers testing might give false lows, or negatives, but it's what we have at present.

Also:

http://www.caberfeidh.com/CanineTiters.htm

Here is my experience with titers:

1. Adult male titered for distemper & parvo had minimal vaccines with previous owner and none within 2 years of titers his results were well over 1:100 (1:5 is the baseline for sufficent coverage)

2. 10 month old received 1 puppy shot from breeder at 7 weeks. Her results were similar to the adult male above.

3. 2 foster pups - bottle fed, never nursed, received no collostrum, no vaccines both tested 1:5+ on their distemper/parvo titers at 14 weeks

4. Litter of 7 GSD pups, raw fed dam, raw weaned - titered at 14 weeks all had 1:5 or above results indicating sufficent immunities "present"

5. 4.5 male GSD titered for rabies one month post chemo treatment for rabies waiver results 1:110 (the standard for sufficent coverage in people is 1:5) He was due for a 3 year rabies vaccine.

I don't vaccinate my dogs unless I have to (rabies for the ones in the system) and will not vaccinate for rabies under a year if possible and never under 6 months or in combination with anything else. I can't believe vets will give combo vax +rabies+ other treatments or spay/neuters in the same visit!

I just had three of my dogs titers tested and they all had sufficient immunity to parvo, distemper and rabies. Two of them are 3 years old, only received three shots as puppies starting at 16 weeks and have never had a rabies shot . The other is almost 5 years old and hasn't had any vaccines in three years.

I am so thankful to Cindy for getting me started with raw feeding! I have never had healthier dogs.