Hopefully I'm posting this in the best place.

I have three questions on sharpness that I haven't been able to locate answers to anywhere:

- Might there be any reliable way to tell if a 10 to 14 week old pup will be sharp later on?

- How early have you seen it really start to show up in pups? (I've seen what I would consider non-truly sharp pups in my breed act sharp for a few months and then grow out of it, but I'm thinking the real sharpness might show up a little later?)

- From what you have observed, would you say it is dominant or recessive in your breed(s)?

Thanks!

1. No surefire way, but you can get a good indication if you know what to look for. Its not straight forward enough for me to try and explain, its just one of those things you observe.

2. My female is incredibly sharp. Looking back at a video the breeder sent me of her at 6 weeks old I can see it as far back as that.

3. Not quite sure what you mean by that.

My dog has been sharp from day 1. We got him at 8 weeks and it's the same at 4years. Just from what I've observed, I don't think it's real dominant in Rotts. Thats just my opinion though and from what I have seen and read it doesnt seem like there is much agreement in any discussion on sharpness.

Fetz was sharp when I first handled him as a puppy at 6 1/2 weeks old.
I am of the opinion that the Flinks puppy testing gives valuable clues regarding future sharpness.

And I'd say this seems to be *dominant* trait, as all his offspring have had "robust" temperaments.....

Thanks for the replies!

That's very interesting and neat that all three of you could tell it in yours early on!

I know Mike said it was difficult to specifically describe, but would any of you maybe say it seems like, oh, I don't know, an overreaction/an "overinterest" to things at that age? (Yeah, I can't explain either. ) Or maybe simply barkiness/charginess at objects at that age?

I suppose a fear I have is that I might somehow end up confusing interest/confidence/prey drive with sharpness in a young puppy I test.

Mike - I was referring to genetic inheritance. Like, would you think it is a dominant trait or a recessive trait (or polygenic).

Will - I just looked at the Flinks. Would you say any part of it in particular? Maybe the last one on there?

Thanks!

Edited by Lisa Emerson (12/31/1969 06:00 PM)
Edit reason: better parsing

I find the portion of the test where the puppy is placed on his back to be revealing for what your future with the puppy is going to be like.

With Fetz, he fought us the entire time with the look of "when I get up, you all are *dead*" in his eyes.
Bernhard was very entertained with the level of fight in him and hence he ended up my pick.

Lisa,

When I went to the Michael Ellis seminar, he is the one that pointed out that Ember was probably going to be a sharp girl.

When I took her in the first time there were several people standing around. I dropped her lead and everyone was told (or knew) to ignore her. She went up to several of them, jumped up and then went to the next person since there was no reaction from the other.

When she approached people, her tail would drop a bit so that is was straight out behind her and her ears would go back in a submissive manner. When she saw one of the people standing there with a furry type hat on, she hackled, barked and growled and stood about 5ft away while doing this, them she would back off, and re-approach him still with ears back, tail out straight.

She finally approached and jumped up on him and then it was okay after that.

With new things, she barks, bounces away and then moves in to investigate.

This is what Michael pointed out to me.
We spend a lot of time socializing and usually I have people ignore her. The people that know what to do, I will allow them to talk to her and give her a small high value food reward only when her ears are up and she is not showing any signs of wariness.

She now approaches almost everyone with her ears up, tail up and shows happy body language. Now, we are working on "big scary things" like heavy equipment, the agility field and things like that.
I still take her to work with me and I still walk her in town and we visit various businesses and things.

Not sure if this is from her parents, I guess I never did ask Cindy.

Ember is just Ember I think. She is a handful and I am trying really hard to make sure I do all of her training correctly so that I do not end up with her having any issues.

 Quote: Will Rambeau

I find the portion of the test where the puppy is placed on his back to be revealing for what your future with the puppy is going to be like.

While I feel that this particular test can accurately show some aspect of dominance or willingness to submit, I don't think it really tells much about the sharpness or lack there of in a puppy.

In my experience with puppies,the most stable and thick nerved puppy in the world may throw a hissy fit at being restrained, while the sharpest pup may resign himself to this handling.

Like Will said, it can be revealing to your future with that pup but not necessarily in regard to sharpness.

 Quote: carol boche

Lisa,

When I went to the Michael Ellis seminar, he is the one that pointed out that Ember was probably going to be a sharp girl.

Not sure if this is from her parents, I guess I never did ask Cindy.

Ember is just Ember I think. She is a handful and I am trying really hard to make sure I do all of her training correctly so that I do not end up with her having any issues.

sorry Carol, I just saw this. Ember IS sharp already. Rush is sharp also.

Jackson is not sharp, not at all. He is extremely stable, confident and has intense desire to bite, fight and control the opponent. He doesn't really have play drive. Jackson has fight drive, and is one of the few dogs I have seen in the recent past that is a textbook case. He doesn't walk around with a chip on his shoulder, but when he decides to fight it's all about winning. He lays in a crate or kennel and looks at you when you walk by, he has nothing to prove. Now if you threatened him, he would react but just walking past his crate or coming in the house isn't anything that gets his dander up.

Raine has extreme prey, loads of aggression and is sharp. She will light up on anyone who comes anywhere near the car or house. She's very reactive to stimulus. she bites hard and with a lot of energy. It would be easy to make her hectic with the wrong kind of training.

My goal for the breeding that Em is from was to produce dogs that are a combo of both parents. whether I accomplished this or not remains to be seen. Until the puppies are older I won't know, but so far I am seeing a very nice blend of Jackson's confidence, gripping behavior, and Raine's little "edge" also known as sharpness.

I'm not sure just how to word this but does sharpness + strong nerves usually give you a good fight drive? And will Raine also light up with extra excitement and joy to certain people that she seems to like other then family?