I have made the decision to incorporate an e collar in my work with my 2.5 year old Golden Retriever. I have read a lot. I have studied the Leerburg DVD on e collars. My dog - Willie - knows the basic commands and responds reasonably well. He usually responds to my commands quickly. The problems arise when there are distractions. We have worked on this quite a bit but I am convinced that we can make better progress and really solidify things with an e collar - ultimately my primary goal is to get the recall command (Come) down absolutely cold so that when off lease and with distractions Willie responds immediately. Willie and I have a very strong relationship. His training thus far has been 90% positive reinforcement - food treats and praise. We have not used marker training (ala the Leerburg video, but I am leaning toward incorporating that into our training sessions.

My concern is how to begin. I understand how to use the collar once Willie has been introduced to it and understands what it is. For the last week I have been getting him used to the collar following the protocol on the DVD. But this weekend we will be ready to start and I want to do it very carefully so that it is a positive, not a negative thing. I understand how to get the correct intensity with the collar - that is not my question. My question is this - what would you suggest I do with the collar the first time I take Willie out. Is it ok to start right in on the recall in a confined area with a long line on? He is very good but not always perfect in that environment - one weakness is that I sometimes give two commands before I get him to comply which I understand is something that was totally my fault. But it seems like a good way to start would be in a confined area with a long line working on improving him (and me) so that he comes immediately after one Come command - not two. Does this make sense?

And lastly, will he learn what the stimulation is all about if I start by connecting the stimulation to a firm NO - when I get a refusal - ie, at first make the stimulation simultaneous with the "NO" and then as time goes on delay the Stimulation a second to give him a chance. This is my plan - does it make sense?

I ask because I do see a lot of others counseling using the stimulation with the command to teach the dog to turn it off with compliance which it seems to me is quite different.

Hi Robert - I just started using a ecollar a few months ago. The biggest issue I believe you will encounter is making proper post to skin contact. This takes a while to get used to. I ended up needing longer posts for my dog. On my dog the collar needs to be on tight then I have to move it up and down through the fur to get descent contact. There is kind of a knack to it.

It's a great tool. You will wonder how you ever trained without it.

 Quote: robert gerety

I understand how to get the correct intensity with the collar - that is not my question. My question is this - what would you suggest I do with the collar the first time I take Willie out. Is it ok to start right in on the recall in a confined area with a long line on? He is very good but not always perfect in that environment - one weakness is that I sometimes give two commands before I get him to comply which I understand is something that was totally my fault. But it seems like a good way to start would be in a confined area with a long line working on improving him (and me) so that he comes immediately after one Come command - not two. Does this make sense?

And lastly, will he learn what the stimulation is all about if I start by connecting the stimulation to a firm NO - when I get a refusal - ie, at first make the stimulation simultaneous with the "NO" and then as time goes on delay the Stimulation a second to give him a chance. This is my plan - does it make sense?

Robert,
I had never used an e-collar on any of my dogs before until I purchased it for my current dog Buddy. After following the advice on the DVD, I started my training session on our fenced property with the long line on using it only with the come command first. Like you I wanted to make sure that he understood that the stim was a correction and that it was comming from me. That's why I included the long line in my training sessions so I could give a lite pop along with the stim. For my dog, it worked great, it didn't take him long to associate the stim with a correction. I too gave the command to come, followed by the 'no', but I included the (2 seconds) then lite pop/stim if he didn't respond. I feel this worked best for my dog and it didn't take long before I was able to quit using the line and work with the e-collar alone.

I do think that after your dog understands the stim is a correction you can retrain him to respond to the command the first time given and quit repeating the command. JMO - Good Luck

Dear Robert;
Sounds like you have a good understanding of Ed's DVD. This is a correction based method of using the e collar.
I do use the collar differently, using a low level in conjuntion
with a primary reinforcer. What you referred to was escape training, where the dog would be trying to turn the stimulation off. Not the same thing. Hope this clears up any confusion that you may have.
Roni

Thanks for the replies - I would love as much input on this as possible. I have no pre conceived notions about what is the best way to do this - I am open minded. I just need to think it through, pick an approach, and then start in with this.

I was asking myself the exact same question about how to start until yesterday when I just started. I decided to start using the collar while walking at heel because that is the excercise that requires the most corrections for my particular dog. Usually she gets leash pops on a prong collar, so I put on the prong and the e-collar. After a few corrections with the prong, I started mixing in the nick stimulation corrections. She seemed to understand the stim as a correction right away. I'd previously determined our working stim level. So, I used the stim exactly as I do the prong- dog starts creeping ahead of me, I say "No, heel" as a warning and to provide an opportunity for her to get back into position, then correct if she does not comply.

Man, it worked great! If the prong collar is "power steering on dogs", then what do you call the e-collar????

I used the e collar with my Golden Retriever today for the first time. I've been working up to this day, planning my every move, getting Willie accustomed to the collar, ready and thinking about exactly how to start. My goal is a rock solid recall and so I started with that. I used a long line alone for a short while the last few days to get him back in the training frame of mind. Today was the day for the beginning of the e collar.

I am absolutely amazed by the effectiveness of this collar with Willie. I am following the Leerburg method and it is working great. Man am I glad I took the leap with this e collar. I was skeptical about it. No more. This is a tremendous training tool if used correctly. And very humane - I am using very low level stimulation and it works like a charm. It took Willie about 5 minutes to figure out what was going on. We'll see if I can keep this going in the coming days and weeks. I am very optimistic.

I like this thread. I was thinking about starting to use an e collar on my rottweiler sometime soon myself. I too am wondering how to start off. Im caught between using an e collar or a prong collar. my rottie is pretty much ok as far as behavior goes but could always be better....

Great thread. I just starting using the e collar this weekend, but for hole digging. I want to use it for obedience also and build a fast reliable recall, etc. My 6 mo. old GSD is such a brat on a long line that I've tried to skip it, although I see my disadvantage in trying to teach him the stim is coming from me. I like the idea of using it on a walk along with the collar corrections for heel. I might try that.

I have to stop reading and researching!! I am getting confused and frustrated about which training method to use with my (now 7 month old) GSD. Other sources say that only the escape method is the right way, but the method seems overly complicated to me and counter-intuitive. I own Ed's DVD and have watched it twice. I need to watch it again, and make up my mind to pick a method and get started.

I have the Tri Tronics Sport model collar, and I watched the DVD that came with it too. The short instruction session used a method more like Ed's than the escape method... and it seems to make more sense to me.

The more people you listen to the more confused you get! No one agrees and everyone considers themself an expert.