thanks again group.

Layla's a 6 month old lab mix. Starting to bark a little. We've had her for 3 days now.

Can any of you take me through what you would consider to be a Marker Training session. I've read info on the site and also listen to the podcasts here, a few times each and I believe I have an understanding of the concepts. Perhaps someone with experience can just, basically, walk me through a simple basic training session for cessation of barking.

I like Ed's advice on sessions: brief (1.5 - 3 minutes).

Chuck

I saw another post where you had mentioned marker in a way that made me know that you had reward and marker confused. I meant to come back and reply.

Your "yes" is your marker; that "yes" that you use is uttered the instant the wanted behavior (like silence) happens, telling the dog (after you load the marker*) "Correct! Reward is coming!" (Many use a clicker as the marker.)

*To load it in advance, you can give the marker and follow quickly with the high-value reward for him to learn that the marker means "reward coming."

P.S. I can come back a bit later and go through a first session, or maybe someone else can before then.

Connie and all!
We're going out for a walk. Your information and willingness to help us is greatly appreciated!

CHuck Elaine Bosco and Layla

http://leerburg.com/979.htm
is an inexpensive little book that is very easy to read and to use.

From http://leerburg.com/markers.htm
QUOTE: The first training step we do in marker training is called CHARGING THE MARK. It can be done anywhere, in your kitchen, basement, or back yard. The goal of charging the mark is to teach the dog that when he hears us say YES or when he hears the clicker we feed him a very good treat.

When we charge the mark the dog does not have to do anything to get marked. We simply say YES or click the clicker and give the dog a food treat. Trainers new to this system need to understand that the only dog training going on during CHARGE THE MARK is to make the dog realize that you saying YES means he gets a food treat.

It is important that the word YES is never said at the same instant you move your arm and reach for the food treat. For this program to work there must be short time lapse between saying the word and moving the arm for the food.
You will know your dog is getting it when you say YES and the dog looks at you like HEY GIVE ME MY TREAT!!!

Most dogs pick up the concept of a CHARGED YES OR CHARGE THE CLICK in about 20 minutes. END QUOTE

OK. Say that I had charged (loaded) my marker, as above. That's the important Step 1, because the dog must first get it that the marker means "Correct! Reward coming!"

One very simple exercise if I want to actually give a known command (not necessary at this step, as shown in the remainder of the article I linked above) is for me is to say sit to a sit-trained but not marker-trained dog. The instant his butt hits, I say "yes" (or click: whatever your consistent marker is) and then give a high-value but tiny food treat. Again, this is after the loading of my marker.

Marker training is profoundly open-ended as to application and complexity of behaviors that you can teach with it. But I understand that you to want to see the very basic steps from simple behavior to mark-and-reward.

And I'd start with very simple behaviors, too, rather than the timing that is required of you to catch and mark silence (or no-barking).

Or you may prefer to start with "touch" as in the article.

Note that "In marker training commands are not added until the dog knows and understands the exercise. The concept of when to add a command in marker training is radically different than old school training" (from the URL).

But I think that what you wanted was to see a very simple exercise of command/compliance/marker/reward ? That's why I said that my example was for a dog who knows "sit" a (sit-trained but not marker-trained dog).

Even simpler: Mark and reward for eye contact.

Start with loading and then a simple behavior, and see what happens. Post back.

Other folks will refine my extremely basic outline, I'm sure.

hi

well I just got home...and we're trying a "quiet" command. I'll be "charging the mark" (the word "yes") a lot tomorrow AM.

Then, I think I need to know how to pair that charged marker ("yes") with the "quiet" command...or, simply, training Layla not to bark.

Chuck

Well, I'd start with something very simple. I'd mark and reward for eye contact, say. This will give you some practice.

Then this is how I have marker-trained no-bark.... I have stood there and waited for a moment of silence (like when the dog stops to figure out WTH I'm doing there standing like a statue) and instantly marked (and then rewarded) for the quiet.

Going from barky to silent makes it crystal clear to the dog what the marker is given for if you are very prompt with your marker ("yes," clicker, whatever you use).

As Ed says in several articles, the marker acts as a camera for the dog, taking a snapshot of exactly what the dog was doing when he earned the marker.

No-bark is not as simple or instant as eye contact or several other behaviors because there is an inherent reward in barking that isn't there for, say, not making eye contact, if you see what I mean.

This is why I would 1. gather some excellent but tiny food rewards, 2. charge my marker, and 3. practice on a very simple behavior.

Connie, I searched to try and find how you eventually get out of having to do a food reward for each taught behavior, but I can't find it. We took a class I really didn't like, on clicker training, and Kasey learned stuff fast with it, but she didn't ever show us how to phase it out.

In addition, let's say you teach something you use a lot, like sit, with a marker. He would learn it usually in a matter of a day or so, and then whenever I would tell him to sit in the course of a day, he would look for food (he is highly, highly motivated by treats to the point that they become maybe a distraction?). So it kind of seemed like I was 'tricking' him because he would get the treats in order to learn it, but then you can't carry treats around with you 24/7 for all the times you use the taught command! Am I making sense?!

Lori

http://leerburg.com/markers.htm

Scroll down to "How Long Do You Use Food" and "Random Reinforcement."

And I agree with this point in the article: The second part is you should never get to the point where you mark a behavior and then don't offer the reward. If you do this you run the risk of the dog slowing down. Some dogs will start to think "Is this one of those times I am not going to get a reward?" They often decide this is probably one of those times and loose interest. So the concept of "A mark always gets a reward" never changes.

I do indeed use random reinforcement (and I do indeed find that my dogs are imbued with slot machine mentality :grin.

So for me (and others will weigh in, I'm sure), I use the 100% mark/reward protocol until whatever the basic ob behavior is, is great, and use it again when the behavior has to happen in a new venue or with new distractions, and then decrease gradually to random.

From Karen Pryor's site at
http://www.clickertraining.com/whatis
Do clickers and treats need to be used for every behavior, forever?

No. Once a behavior is learned and on cue, there’s usually no need to click, as the animal understands the behavior. Clicker trainers can maintain the behavior by replacing specially good treats with occasional and less intensive rewards including a pat or praise. Learned cues and behaviors are also maintained by real-life rewards: for example sitting quietly at the door is rewarded by opening the door so that the dog can have a walk. Clicker trainers then save clicks and treats for the next new thing they want to train.

And from http://www.jerseydogtrainer.com/clicker.aspx
Can I ever wean her off the clicker and treats?
Yes! The clicker is for teaching new behaviors. Once the dog has developed a solid habit, you can discontinue the clicker. As far as treats are concerned, you should then put the dog on a random reinforcement schedule rather than the continuous reinforcement schedule that you've been using. Here's a sample of a random reinforcement schedule .... In between ..... offer other forms of rewards (i.e., toss of a ball, a short game of tug, a pat on the back, praise, a game of chase, etc.) ....

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

http://leerburg.com/979.htm
is an inexpensive little book that is very easy to read and to use.

Chuck,
I have just ordered this book from Leerburg and am waiting for it to arrive. I hope to do clicker/marker training with my dogs too.

They say that the dog learns a click for a marker about 4 times faster than a word for a marker. (They both work, just one works faster). Personally, I chose a clicker because I already know that, as a beginner, I am not consistent enough with tone, volume, inflection etc.. to use a word well enough to avoid confusing the dog. When I have more experience and knowledge, I will probably use a word instead of or in addition to the clicker.

From the little I've done, I can tell you that split second timing is very important in this work. I look forward to learning more. And I have read about people who have successfully marker trained their dogs out of barking excessively... and even cured fear aggression (though that takes months of consistent work).