I have a 9 month old GS, and while we are working obedience, I have not been able to get her to stop roughing up my 4 year old son. She gets so excited when he is around, and jumps, wags, and usually knocks him down. I am also working with her to keep her from jumping up with front paws on people. I am referring to some past post on the jumping problem,(pinching b/t toes and knee in chest) but any of you smart behaviorist out there who can help w/ my son's problem I would be grateful. I think my wife is about to put me in the back yard with the dog.

Unfortunately this is part of the age the dog is at. I call my 11 mo old bonehead all the time because he STILL will jump off the couch and crack his head into the OAK coffee table. I swear the dog should have knocked himself cold by now. They are clumsy for a long time.

Dogs and toddlers are hard. Even with older well trained dogs it can be difficult at times. Talk to Vancamp some, he has had both in his house and managed to not get put in the dog house by his wife from what I understand.

With the jumping up problem consistancy is key.... actually for that matter, in all dog training, consistancy is key.

O.k. Vancamp, you out there?

Positive Re-enforcement encourages a specific behavior.
Negitive Re-enforcement discourges a specific behavior.

This is really all you need to remember. So it seems you need to re-enforce the unwanted actions and teach proper ones when dealing with children, and then again re-enforce the new behavior. Can you guess which re-enforcment goes with which behavior? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Close Lonny,

The term re-enforcement means that it increases the behavior, positive or negative. Punishment decreases a behavior. Punishment is the least effective method of reducing a behavior. It is only effective when the punisher is present. The best method is to re-enforce a behavior incompatable with what you don't want (sitting instead of jumping). The second best method of eliminating a behavior is to remove the re-enforcement and ignore it totally. This may take longer, and may cause an increase in the behavior for a short time. There is an article that Ed's brother wrote on the web site about re-enfocement.

The biggest problem with small children and dogs is that a kid does everything wrong. They move too fast, they tend to be too loud, and they tend to get really excited when they see the puppy and that transmits to the puppy, or they demonstrate fear behavior and that causes problems. It will probably be required to teach the kid to be calm around the dog as well. I would start by teaching both to sit down and the child to pet the dog GENTLY. No motion on eithers part. I would discourage the child from playing active games (Fetch, chase, or anything that would stimulate prey drive). If the puppy gets overly excited put it in it's crate until it calms down. Then try again after the puppy is calm for approximately 1/2 an hour.

Well crap! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Guess I'll keep trying! I do agree with your post there Richard, especially the training the child part...and I mean no disrespect.. but.... when teaching my pup to deal with children it went two ways. Jump on child or "excited play/mouthing" pup recieved harsh correction, Negitive re-enforcment. Pup kissed child and acted calm, pup recieved praise and nice petting, positive re-enforcement.

Now when my dog meets children he calmly walks up and will give a few greeting licks and that's it, he will play nice ball.. whatever. He has been tested with the worlds worst child I could find... being my wifes friends son.. ear grabbing etc... he will remain calm and take whatever is dished out... Now of course... who knows when I am not there...I will never trust that completly.... he is still a dog.

So my theroy worked very good for me... only about 3 or 4 situations and that was all it took. I really feel that ignoring the behavior is not the answer in this peticular situation, and I'm suprised you even offered that option to be honest... ignoring knocking a child over? It is a good training method, I used it for dog to dog socilation when he was in his "Daddy Daddy, that dog scares me" phase.. worked great. But not here...

I will agree with replacing the behavior sit instead of jump etc... because that is just what I ment in my first post.

Excelent thread... thank you!

Lonny,

Positive Reward-This is giving something as a result of giving a desired response.

Example: Bite of food for running in a circle and chasing your tail. The food is what is added.

Example: Praise for sitting when commanded to do so. The praise is what is added.

Negative Reward- This is taking away a stimulus as a result of giving a desired response.

Example: A noxious odor is removed when a dog stops barking. The odor is what is taken away.

Example: A shock is ended when a rat completes a maze. The shock is what is taken away.

Positive punishment-This is when an aversive is added as a result of not giving a desired response.

Example: A dog is shamed when it growls at a child. The shame is what is added.

Example: An animal is shocked when it fails to perform a target behavior. The shock is what is added.

Negative Punishment- This is when you take away something pleasent for failure to exhibit the target response.

Example: Food is removed because a dog didn't dance on its back legs. The food is pleasent, and is what is removed.

Example: Freedom is removed becasue of running away. Freedom is pleasent, and is what is taken away.

These are silly examples, but you need to understand that NEGATIVE does not always mean bad, and Positive not always good. Operant conditioning is nothing new.

If you haven't already read Ed's brother's article... I highly recommend it. click here

Scott, my 11 month old GSD had similar problems. She simply does not learn through correction (refuses to demonstrate avoidance). In fact, correction seems to make her MORE stubborn.

However, we had success teaching a really solid platz (down) and keeping the dog in this position for the first 2 or 3 minutes that new people are present. You may also try keeping the pup on a long line and having the child simply turn his back to the pup (ignoring her) if she jumps.

Your breeder (Kennel Seeblick) produces a lot of high drive dogs that LOVE people and LOVE to jump. Is this pup out of Anna vd Rader-Brucke?

Lonny,

The description is of a more effective technique than punishment, called extinction. In this case it is applied by putting the dog in a crate for being overly excited, removal of all stimulus.

There are a couple of problems with punishment in this case. The biggest is that the punishment may become associated with the child. If the dog comes to see the child as a negative stimulus it may create problems down the road. A second problem could be how the dog reacts to a correction. In some cases this will make the dog increase in the behavior because it doesn't understand what the correction is for yet.

As with most problems, this is one that is better prevented rather than cured. The best way to handle this type of situation is for the introductions to be made when the puppy is younger. At that point the puppy is smaller and easier to control. Because the puppy is smaller it is less likely that the puppy will knock the child down if it gets too excited.

One more caution. I would never allow a dog to lick a person they are just meeting, especially a dog that will be large. There are many people that are afraid of dogs, especialy children, and a dog that comes up and licks will terrify them. If you are going to allow the dog to lick it should only be on command, and after an opportunity to see how the person will react to the dog.

Schanauzergirl-Deanna/Richard Cannon,
Both of your posts interesting. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
At what age do you stop using these methods and begin to use physical corrections on the K-9.

Richard removing the dog form the stimuli/ i.e. putting it in crate is similar to TIME OUT for children. What does the dog learn by this practice exept if bad I go to crate/ This method used with school children everyday with little positive results for the child in Time OUT. (what can you learn being separated from the lesson) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Redirecting I understand/ stimuli provokes a reaction you don't like, redirect dogs actions to one you condonne.

I'm old fashioned and trying to change, bear with me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Again well posted by all!