 Lucy and the down command
#246903 - 07/15/2009 11:54 AM |
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Lucy will not down on command. Does she know it? Probably not.
Sometimes during marker training, she will down if I lure her but mostly she just gets to a puppy bow and then backs up and barks and backs up and barks, etc. During marker training, she wouldn't offer it on her own, so I thought I would mark when she stretched and folded down on her own in the house, (as soon as her belly hit the ground), I would mark and reward. But then, she would think we were doing marker training and get excited.
(Now, Hambone won't down on command around other dogs and I can understand that and accept it. So, now I have to wonder if it is a protection thing from Lucy NOT to down on command or if she really doesn't get it.)
I have no idea how to get this command through to her. Any ideas?
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Re: Lucy and the down command
[Re: Jo Harker ]
#246918 - 07/15/2009 01:48 PM |
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How do you lure her?
The way I have taught it was to hold the treat in my closed fist, and put my fist on the floor in front of the dog. The dog works on my fist trying to get the treat out, and eventually lays down. I click/mark when the butt hits the floor (or elbows, whichever happens last) and instantly open my fist and the dog eats the treat.
I believe, IIRC, that Ed demonstrates this on his Basic Obedience video, but don't quote me on it. 
O.T. the dog in my sig pic is also named Lucy. (aka The Diva).
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Re: Lucy and the down command
[Re: Angela Burrell ]
#246920 - 07/15/2009 01:56 PM |
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i have always taught down like that(treat in fist on the floor) until i got my little dog, who would either bow and bark(like you mentioned), or just stand there and give me that forget that look.
i started marking his downs through out the day(he naturally, for example will down a few feet away from me when i eat on the couch). not treat yet, because he would get excited and get up, but either a yes, good down or the clicker. when i saw him move into a down, i would say down as he was lowering himself, and mark when he got all the way there.
he offered it more, then i moved to treating it. after a while doing that, you phase the treats out(still keeping the marker), and go to random rewards.
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Re: Lucy and the down command
[Re: Angela Burrell ]
#246921 - 07/15/2009 02:03 PM |
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Loc: Indiana
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How do you lure her?
The way I have taught it was to hold the treat in my closed fist, and put my fist on the floor in front of the dog. The dog works on my fist trying to get the treat out, and eventually lays down. I click/mark when the butt hits the floor (or elbows, whichever happens last) and instantly open my fist and the dog eats the treat.
I believe, IIRC, that Ed demonstrates this on his Basic Obedience video, but don't quote me on it.
O.T. the dog in my sig pic is also named Lucy. (aka The Diva).
That is how I lure. And, she does what Mallory's dog did.
i started marking his downs through out the day(he naturally, for example will down a few feet away from me when i eat on the couch). not treat yet, because he would get excited and get up, but either a yes, good down or the clicker. when i saw him move into a down, i would say down as he was lowering himself, and mark when he got all the way there.
he offered it more, then i moved to treating it. after a while doing that, you phase the treats out(still keeping the marker), and go to random rewards.
so, you marked but didn't give reward? Lucy won't go for that. She knows when I say yes, she gets rewarded. Hmmm...gotta be a way in that someway though.
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Re: Lucy and the down command
[Re: Jo Harker ]
#246922 - 07/15/2009 02:23 PM |
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Hi Jo,
You may want to try a slightly different lure.
Hold the treat in front of the dog's face, then lower it slowly to the ground, then towards you, along the ground (the motion makes an "L" shape).
Good luck!
leih
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Re: Lucy and the down command
[Re: Jo Harker ]
#246923 - 07/15/2009 02:32 PM |
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Loc: Cold-ville, Wisconsin.
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so, you marked but didn't give reward? Lucy won't go for that. She knows when I say yes, she gets rewarded. Hmmm...gotta be a way in that someway though.
well, when we started training, i did reward, but he is at a place where he understands the marker now, even without the reward. i still do reward, for learning most new behaviors, but in this particular case, i was marking offered behaviors, that happened to be offered more when I was eating, and i am not interrupting my meal to give him treats, and i kind of don't want him thinking he can try and move up to my plate. i could crate him while i eat, but like i said, he stays a respectful distance, and offers the down, so i just mark and put a command to it.
i should have said that, once he "figured out" what down was, he WOULD down when i did the fist to the floor, and said down. then he did get the reward.
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Re: Lucy and the down command
[Re: Mallory Kwiatkowski ]
#246928 - 07/15/2009 03:18 PM |
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Reg: 02-10-2008
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Loc: Kentucky
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Jo, hope this helps and I hope you know I am not one of the experienced people and I'm also fairly new to markers.
The way I did it (and I had a time because my dog is very energetic and animated) is that I would put the treat between my fingers where she could just barely lick (like they were saying about getting her to work at it and eventually down). I would even give her a little nudge on the butt to get her down there. Finally it clicked for her and she knows down.
She would always jump right up, so I finally caught on to the jack pot and that gets her to stay down. I'm still working on her down/stay with and without reward. Of course, I still reward for down. I think the only think I don't reward for is sit (I still always give a pet or 'nice girl'.
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Re: Lucy and the down command
[Re: Nora Ferrell ]
#246929 - 07/15/2009 03:38 PM |
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Reg: 10-24-2008
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Loc: Indiana
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Okay...all those sound doable. We will try it with her. Thanks!
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Re: Lucy and the down command
[Re: Mallory Kwiatkowski ]
#246931 - 07/15/2009 03:54 PM |
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Loc: North-Central coast of California
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Just a quick note: I never give an empty marker.
For me, the marker means "reward coming." That's what it is: the news that the reward is coming for whatever the dog was doing at the exact second that the marker was given.
Have you considered a different reaction to uncommanded behaviors, such as a quick pat or a different praise word (not the marker word)?
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Re: Lucy and the down command
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#246934 - 07/15/2009 04:50 PM |
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Loc: Kentucky
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Jo, I know that you know to make sure the mark is charged, but when I am doing anything with markers, my dog will go thru her complete bag of tricks to get that "Yes!".
I mean, just hearing the word spoken that way is enough to get her interested.
Like Connie said, never an empty marker, but if she doesn't get it right (what I'm am asking) I don't mark until she does.
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