I have a 5 month old which I have started doing drive and focus with as a part of his Schutzhund training. My plan is to breed him after I have titled him in a few different sports down the road. I recently purchased an e-collar and plan to start getting him used to it over the next couple of weeks.

My question has to do with what I have heard about corrections taking drive out of a dog. I am being told by my TD to just do focus and drive and that is all until the drive is where we want it around a year old or so. However this dog is a house/family dog which forces the issue when it comes to obedience. That being the case I have already taught him sit, stay, come, heel, off, etc. Just various "manners" which I have been told I should wait and focus on later. After a couple of weeks I want to start using the e-collar for these things and also to help with setting boundaries (no running out garage door etc).

How much should I expect this to effect his drive? Is he to young for an e-collar? I am doing a lot of research on my own but I am in conflict on these two questions. Any PP sport type people (SCH, DVG, FR, MR, etc) I would appreciate your thoughts.

For myself, effecting his drive wouldnt be why I wouldn't and haven't used the ecollar on my dogs at that age. I don't think I've done enough of the focus and foundation work at that age yet like your TD is talking about.

I'm sure I would just confuse him with it. At that age your still managing everything he does and letting him explore and learn.
But thats only my opinion.

 Quote: steve strom

For myself, effecting his drive wouldnt be why I wouldn't and haven't used the ecollar on my dogs at that age. I don't think I've done enough of the focus and foundation work at that age yet like your TD is talking about. ... But thats only my opinion.

Mine too.

Are you using marker training, positive and upbeat? Why do you think you're going to need an e-collar now?

 Quote: steve strom

For myself, effecting his drive wouldnt be why I wouldn't and haven't used the ecollar on my dogs at that age. I don't think I've done enough of the focus and foundation work at that age yet like your TD is talking about.

I completely agree with Steve. I didn't start using the e-collar with my dog in the various disciplines in Schutzhund until I was at the finishing point. That is, she knows the commands and what I am asking -- taught in a purely motivational manner -- and now I am at the point of preparing for proofing and trialing and putting consequences to "disobedience."

Katie

I am at a similar point. My pup is 6, almost 7 months. He is a family dog that I hope to do schutz with as well. The last week he seems to be turning into a teenager. He has blown me off on recalls. As ed puts it "giving me the finger". I only want to use the e-collar for recall but am soo conflicted about it. Will this affect drive/bond issues? I wouldn't dream of using it for OB or anything other than recall or yuck. I do all marker training and have tried hard to create a good bond and focus building. Also, I try to do a couple of restrained recalls every day. I just need that recall. With 3 kids running around and my desire to take him for off leash in the woods if it is not reliable it creates potentially dangerous situation for him and others.

Thoughts?

Sorry to hijack Rob but you typed almost exactly what I was thinking.

Both of these pups are way to young for e-collars. I would, like Steve said, also still be working on focus & drive at that age. I would not allow them off line in the woods at that age, period. JMO Teach them on a longline for recalls (with marker training). My pups are dragging 20 ft long lines for a long time out in the fields, the beach, the woods etc. And they are never where I can't grab or step on the longline to prevent them from leaving my immedicate area. I would never let a pup under a year or more loose out in an unenclosed area without being able to put my hands on him immediately, just in case. I don't even really do corrections on a pup until it is a year or so old. Control the pup & his environment & you won't need corrections until he is older. I have raised multiple pups in the last several years, as have other here, this way.

ETA....I do SchH with my dogs & they are my companion dogs, that live in the house with me.

 Quote: Eric Lesnick

.... my desire to take him for off leash in the woods if it is not reliable it creates potentially dangerous situation for him and others. ....

You mean a 6-7-month old pup off-leash (no line of any kind) in the woods?!

 Quote: Eric Lesnick

My pup is 6, almost 7 months. He has blown me off on recalls.

At 6 or 7 months old don't let him be in the position to blow off the recall. As Anne stated so well; the long line is your friend and his . Also, IMO it is unrealistic to expect a pup that young not to become distracted by his surroundings.

My philosphy; when in doubt don't. Working harder to control the environment and set the pup up for success will have no ill effects and as the dog matures the use of the ecollar can be revisited.

I understand your shock and awe connie I know that in a perfect world I would keep him close and on a line all the time. The fact of the matter is that it is a trade off. Nothing else seems to tire him out like a walk in the woods. This has a domino effect. If he is not tuckered out then behavior in the house becomes a problem, frustration of wife goes up, kids crying, pandamonium. It is unreasonable to keep this dog who seems to need the exercise or release of a walk off leash. If I take him for 3-4 walks during the day, play with him in the yard, multiple sessions of marker training it does not compare to getting him out in the woods. Now, I've never had a dog so young before and the dogs that I had growing up in the mountains of Colorado were rarely on lead, ever. Just like everyone elses dog in town. But then not much of anything was expected of them. So I am very ignorant on the "right" thing to do here. I want to do the best thing for my dog and the answer isn't quite so black and white. Also, according to Leerburg they use e-collar training for yuck and recall at 4 months so I feel like there is conflicting opinions. Trust me, if I could do nothing but marker/postitive training nothing would make me happier. It just seems to me that even if he is reliable with a low distraction on long line recall at some point we're going to have to progress. If now is too soon then ok. But when will I know it's time? Age, Behavior? I appreciate everyones input.

by the by Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Edited by Eric Lesnick (11/26/2009 08:59 PM)
Edit reason: holiday greetings

What kind of recall work have you already done?

Do you know about things like this: http://leerburg.com/772.htm ?

Off-lead running in the woods is not at all the only way to tire a dog.

Have you watched this yet? http://leerburg.com/318.htm




"My pups are dragging 20 ft long lines for a long time out in the fields, the beach, the woods etc." (Anne)

A wonderful thing: http://leerburg.com/729.htm

As an outdoor drag line, it's so much easier to grab the end of this than the pup's zippy body.



I'd be doing upbeat daily recall work. Have you read any of the threads here about teaching the recall?