Any thoughts on Haus Brezel? I spoke to her today and she seemed very knowledgeable. I currently have a strong female from Germelhaus that I love to death but since she is only working lines....she is a bit crazy (hyper and way HARD). I wanted to get a dog from west German lines since they tend to be a bit more shall we say "docile." Her dogs are all mostly V or VA and SCH 3 that she has trained and showed in Sieger as well as USA trials herself. She works along side of a German kennel that she knows very well and send her dogs over there regularly to be bred and shown in SIeger.

I was curious if anyone has worked one on one with the kennel or has heard anything good or bad about them.

Thanks

Diana, I don't know how much info you will get here on showline dogs. Most of the posters here that have GSDs have working line dogs. And multiple ones in their homes, at that. You don't get very many people that cross those lines in terms of ownership. You also will rarely see SL dogs on the same training fields as the working line dogs. They are just light years apart in what they are like to work. With VERY rare exception.

You might get more info on this breeders dogs if you try one of the boards that are dedicated to the showline GSD.

ETA....there are West German SHOW LINES & West German WORKING lines. (& crosses of the 2) Be sure that you know what you are looking at & for, or you may just end up with what you consider, another crazy dog.

All of her dogs are working line dogs and everyone of them is SCH 3 and compete in both USA and Europe but they also do Sieger. I enjoy the sport as a hobby and as of now I don't want to go to regionals, nationals, or world's. I want a dog that I will enjoy working with on a daily basis and only strive to train to SCH 3. I have noticed that these West German lines that are used in Sieger tend to be slightly calmer and easier to handle than the East German lines that are straight hard core working. I love Zelda (attached pic) and working with her. Everyone that meets her have offered to buy her since she is a hard core female and will easily get her 3 but she is difficult to work with since her pain tolerance is extremely high thus making her hard to correct. The West German lines commonly used in Sieger tend to have a lower pain tolerance hence making them easier to correct.

Diana,
I don't know what to say enre to your very large generality other than it's just plain silly. That you assert such a claim shows either an ignorance of the breed or a blindness in attitude toward both the east and west lines.

If you want a softer dog, then ask for one when you talk to the breeder of what ever linage you're interested in. They are in any litter of every line.

Hi Diana,

It gets confusing when the working lines and the show lines can show the same exact titles, doesn't it?

If she is showing in the Seiger shows I can pretty much gurantee that the lines are German Show lines, not German Working lines. And yes they do have schutzhund titles.

If you are striving for a Sch3 on your new dog you may want to reconsider working lines. There are of course show line Sch3's in this country but most show line breeders send their dogs to Europe for the titles. Titling is a wee bit easier there......

Not being negative on the showlines at all, just if you goal is a club level Sch3 you may find it easier with a working line.

If you goal is to concentrate on shows by all means a show line would be the far better choice.

Whatever you decide good luck in your search! I haven't heard of the breeder you are asking about either good or bad but maybe someone else on the board has.

I can't believe the hostility I am receiving from people in the topic. Randy, I am a relatively new trainer in Schutzhund and am still learning about the sport and the various dogs used in it. I can only go by what other trainers have told me and almost everyone of them have used that "generalization" toward the West and East German lines.

Betty, you have been wonderful. You really helped clear things up for me when it comes to the 2 different styles of dogs. I DO want to get into Sieger as I think it would be fun but I also enjoy the competitiveness of Schutzhund trials. From what you have told me Betty, I find that I should keep dogs from both lines, working and show because you can't have the best of both worlds. Again, thank you Betty for clearing up the confusion and for recognizing that I was confused about the difference and not LASHING OUT at me for it.

Oh ya...not to mention, all I did was post a topic asking if anyone knew anything good or bad about the kennel and in return I received members lashing out at me and making me feel like an idiot. I am new to this sport, have some consideration and next time someone posts a topic...stay on topic.

Diana, first off, welcome!

I'm glad Betty was able to clarify the difference between W. Germans show dogs and W.German working dogs for you. I'm not a GSD person, and even I got it!

There are many experienced members with a lot of knowledge here; Anne and Randy are two of those members.

Don't be put off by what you perceive as 'lashing out'. There is much great info here to take advantage of, and the feedback from experienced members is invaluable.

I think you got the response you did in part because the website to Haus Brezel specifically states that these dogs are from W. German showlines. Potentially confusing, when you see that many of their dogs also hold Sch3 titles.

At any rate, keep posting and let us know your progress w/ your current dog and your new pup.

Diana,
No worries, no hostility from here.
As with all such wide ranging generalities stated as fact, they are, all, always patently false.
Also I might add, it is your thread, it was you who opined on temperaments. If you don't want that discusion, fine.

Happy Trails.

Hi Diana,

It is a confusing situation and one which I found myself in two years ago... I had already purchased my dog, a wonderful male GSD from (gasp!) German show lines prior to finding Leerburg. My research before purchasing my dog had so focused on trying to find a dog with as good as a set of hips as I could find that I completely missed the WORKING vs SHOW lineage issue. My dog's pedigree is filled with SCH3, V's, VA's and to a novice (which I definitely still am) this seemed like a very good indication that I was purchasing a well-bred dog. I felt that having the dog's titled in Germany was an indication of "more serious" competition than that in the US, I thought the Seiger titles meant "more", etc... again - to a novice trying to learn all this stuff it can be very, very confusing. It was a bit of a shock to be told from folks on this site that what I thought was one thing was NOT, and of course, it stung a bit.

You will find folks on this forum who have forgotten more about dog training, health or behaviors than some of us can ever hope to learn, and the vast majority are more than happy to share their knowledge with everyone - professional or novice. Yes, some of them come across very blunt, with little or no patience for the novice or for someone who may not be up for training those dogs with a very, very intense drive. And there can definitely be a strong bias toward the pure working line dogs - as you have found out. However, for as many working line GSD owners there are on this forum, there are also tons of folks who have rescue dogs, chihuahuas, mixed mutts of all flavors, etc...

If I had to do it over again, I would still want a dog with Falcon's level of drive, which from my persective is pretty intense for a novice trainer. I would most probably have ruined a more intense, higher drive dog. However, I would have done what Randy suggested rather bluntly (yes, a bit rudely) that even a good WORKING line litter will have a less driven pup, and a good breeder can help you with that selection.

(With that said, there are just as many lousy breeders breeding for the wrong thing in working lines as there are in show lines so your research still needs to be thorough).

I hope you stick around a bit longer, pick a few more brains and read some more. High drive dogs are not for everyone, and I personally think knowing that up front and including it in your list of "what I hope to find in a dog" makes perfect sense. It does not make you an idiot or "lesser" of a committed dog owner, so don't let the blunt or opinionated responses turn you off. In my opinion, it puts you light years ahead of the folks who come on here hysterical because they bought an "uber pup" yet don't have time to exercise the pup, don't like getting their ankles chewed, and who would never, ever put a pup in a crate.

By the way... two other things I've learned is I never would have neutered Falcon before two years of age and changing to a raw diet has been GREAT for my dog.

edited for spelling