I recently saw this clip and figured I throw it out there along with my two cents...

http://wn.com/Dog_Whisperer_Rottweiler_herding_sheep

I cringed when I watched the clip. While the handler has pretty good control of the situation and the dog is not unlike many, many beginning dogs (of all breeds) to the average person Cesar appears to be saying "this is what herding is". And he actually says how wonderful it is because the dog can "drain itself in 15 minutes" - eek?!? what about the sheep in the process?

In reality that is a novice dog that is only having any success at this point because of the handler and well dogged sheep. You won't know the dogs potential for a couple more sessions at least and it is a far cry from what is possible with a dog with decent instinct and training. Yet apparently this was just one more day camp activity for an under-exercised dog. And it's being portrayed to the public as what herding is all about.

It bothers me that herding seems to be becoming a "flavor of the week" activity to do with your dog. And that Cesar seems to be promoting when he takes random dogs out for a herding session. Unlike other dog activities, herding involves another living creature - that is the prey! I think anyone interested in pursuing it with their dog needs to be very aware of this and be committed in working/training to where their dog can be a useful stockdog if the dog shows talent.

Handling livestock is an art that goes far beyond titles and letting your dog have fun/get exercise (though those can be part of the result!) It's about establishing a partnership with your dog and and both of you learning to handle the stock in a way that brings the least amount of stress to them.

I personally believe that anyone who wants to try out herding should spend a day getting to learn how to know/handle stock before the dog enters the picture.

Anyways, there's my long winded two cents

 Quote: mara jessup

... It bothers me that herding seems to be becoming a "flavor of the week" activity to do with your dog. And that Cesar seems to be promoting when he takes random dogs out for a herding session. Unlike other dog activities, herding involves another living creature - that is the prey! I think anyone interested in pursuing it with their dog needs to be very aware of this and be committed in working/training to where their dog can be a useful stockdog if the dog shows talent.

Handling livestock is an art that goes far beyond titles and letting your dog have fun/get exercise (though those can be part of the result!) It's about establishing a partnership with your dog and and both of you learning to handle the stock in a way that brings the least amount of stress to them.

I for one am happy to see this comment. We had another very enlightening (to me) thread on this a while back:

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=134&Number=333694&Searchpage=4&Main=30025&Words=herding&topic=0&Search=true#Post333694

I haven't watched the clip yet, just going off your post, but I think it'll be ok...most people don't have the means to go out and purchase stock for their dogs to just chase around. They'll have to find a trainer with stock, which will quickly weed out the "flavor of the week" kind of people. I deal with them almost daily. Once they realize the time and commitment (and the fact that they do need to learn how to handle the stock) it requires, you never hear from them again...

Though I would agree mostly with Mara, her statement "this is what herding is" I think is based on the wrong premise. Any time I've ever seen Cesar work it's always from the idea of relationship with the dog as pack leader and exercise. I've never heard him try to convey himself as a trainer of any sort.

 Quote: connie sutherland

I for one am happy to see this comment. We had another very enlightening (to me) thread on this a while back:

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=134&Number=333694&Searchpage=4&Main=30025&Words=herding&topic=0&Search=true#Post333694

I so agree. I also hate herding seminar weekends with the "herding instinct test".

It usually involves a tiny pen and a day full of sheep terrorizing, with little no actual herding. And then people are all proud to get the "herding instinct" title on their dog that means absolutely nothing, simply that their dog chased some sheep around meaninglessly.

Very interesting...I have no experience with herding and no opportunities to try it out, but I always like to learn

 Quote: tabatha farnel

 Quote: connie sutherland

I for one am happy to see this comment. We had another very enlightening (to me) thread on this a while back:

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=134&Number=333694&Searchpage=4&Main=30025&Words=herding&topic=0&Search=true#Post333694

I so agree. I also hate herding seminar weekends with the "herding instinct test".

It usually involves a tiny pen and a day full of sheep terrorizing, with little no actual herding. And then people are all proud to get the "herding instinct" title on their dog that means absolutely nothing, simply that their dog chased some sheep around meaninglessly.

So, you don't agree with instint testing? How do you begin teaching a dog herding? I've been herding many, many years, and Im also lucky to train with some of the best in the country, if not the world, and we all instinct test.

I've also seen many, many finished show BC's, Aussies, among other herding breeds, not have a clue in the world as what to do with the stock during the test. There is a reason why we use a small pen, and very specific sheep/goats for the "meaningless" running around.

Herding looks amazing I seen it in Germany,while training at a schutzhund club.years ago. it was real no training in a field along a road no fences. i left training to watch.
a old man had 2 dogs and a large herd of sheep one dog was on guard didn't move to often, the other dog never stopped. the sheep were grazing. one would move out the dog would chase him back. the herder looked like someone out of the past w/pipe,hat and coat. the dogs were mixed breeds very interesting.

 Quote: Webboard User

So, you don't agree with instint testing? How do you begin teaching a dog herding? I've been herding many, many years, and Im also lucky to train with some of the best in the country, if not the world, and we all instinct test.

Personally, I kinda view beginning work as a necessary evil. It is part of the process to creating a dog that is able to become a valuable working partner that will be able to handle the stock with a minimal amount of stress in the future.

I wish they wouldn't give out instinct tested letters. The problem I see with it is that it is often viewed as more letters to put behind a dogs name. People go out and do it for fun, get excited when they get it, but in reality it pretty much means that your dog has decent prey drive. And why put the sheep through it if that's all you're going to do? I mean it's one thing is your goal is to actually train your dog, but thats not always the case.

If I had a set up where I could give lessons, I'd make it a prerequisite that the person come for stock handling lessons before bringing thier dog out to do aything.