http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/are-electronic-shock-collars-painful-or-just-annoying-to-dogs-a-new-study-r

ABUSIVE training techniques, of ANY kind, leave 'scars'. And what has been described in this 'research' & I use the term, research, loosely, is not what I would call training of any kind. Just straight out abuse in the name of so-called research. These people should hang their heads in shame for this.

I have working line GSDs & use e-collars & prong collars on my present & past dogs with NO ill effects of any kind. In fact my dogs have just the opposite feeling about their collars. When they see them come out...they know that they are going out & to the field or some other outside off my property adventure & are 'in drive' happy & wagging their tails & squeeling with anticipation of FUN, before the collars even go on. In fact, they try to push each other out of the way to be first to get their collar on. They love to go for an outing.

They are also very relaxed & comfortable in ANY new enviroment. They certainly don't look at me with dread, fear or anxiety. But I am sure that if I trained the way this 'reasearch' was described they would be!

NO negative collar feelings in my house.

I was thinking that this doesnt seem like very solid research since we dont know anything about the methods the trainers were using (other than that it was all deemed "harsh")

IMHO ....Stiming a dog immediately after giving a command & it seems from their statement not even allowing the dog time to perform the command is NOT training in any sense of the meaning of the word. This was their example:

"For example they state that one dog, shocked immediately after getting a “heel’ command, yelped after getting the next “heel” command without being shocked. The authors point out that the dog was not given a chance to respond after given the “heel” command, rather the command was immediately followed by the correction, hence increasing the likelihood that this type of aversion association would be made. "

To me they have pretty much damaged these dogs with this kind of so-called training. They may have just as well have just sat their & stimed the dog without even bothering issuing any commands...they end result would have been the same. Damaged dogs. And they call this SCIENCE?!!!

I agree. my second question was- what was the point of this research? its scope is way too narrow but they are going to put it out there as conclusive and those who dont know how to analize research are going to assume that scientists are always ethical.
Also, this looks like pure avoidance...and it really should be specified that there is a difference between using the ecollar correctly and misusing it. The way it is presented makes it appear that regardless of the circumstances, the collar will always have negative side effects.

Some countries don't allow prong/pinch or e-collars to be used under any circumstances. It is illegal to have one on your dog. Don't know if this so-called 'research' is to justify the 'powers that be' to keep these 'laws' in place by showing the general public the legitimacy of their claims of their use being cruel & damaging to dogs that have been 'trained' with such methods. Especially as this 'research' was done in a country other than the USA.

 Quote: Anne Jones

IMHO ....Stiming a dog immediately after giving a command & it seems from their statement not even allowing the dog time to perform the command is NOT training in any sense of the meaning of the word. This was their example:

"For example they state that one dog, shocked immediately after getting a “heel’ command, yelped after getting the next “heel” command without being shocked. The authors point out that the dog was not given a chance to respond after given the “heel” command, rather the command was immediately followed by the correction, hence increasing the likelihood that this type of aversion association would be made. "

To me they have pretty much damaged these dogs with this kind of so-called training. They may have just as well have just sat their & stimed the dog without even bothering issuing any commands...they end result would have been the same. Damaged dogs. And they call this SCIENCE?!!!

And what level could they have been using in this "research"!? Among responses were high-pitched yelps, squeals, and "barking screams."


"And they call this SCIENCE?!"

I call what they did abuse.

Although I don't use the e-collar I don't see it as abusive "when used correctly".
Most any method can be abused. The unfortunate side of it is ANY form of correction is looked at with a negative eye by many today.

E-collar, pinch collar or just a physical correction of any sort can be abusive OR an effective way of getting a correct response from the dog....."when used correctly".

I say the same, if its like you would use the prong then I say ok. And as long as its adjusted to the dog's temperament/hardness/drive. I only have a bark collar though, never used an ecollar. I really want one....but would not use it like in the "experiment".

I ran across this while looking for the research done that compared the choke chain, prong collar and e collar and found that both the prong collar and ecollar were more humane because of the trauma to the spine from the choke collar. A friend has been using the prong collar too big and allowing the dog to "self correct" aka pull on it, and didnt believe that that was incorrect. I was going to show them research in hopes they would at least believe that!
ps does anyone know where i can locate that research?