I wonder: Dealing with a German Shepherd; Do females make better SERVICE DOGS than male dogs? or vice vs. A neutered male has a lower standing than a female in the pack.

A neutered male loses his testosterone production, but a female neutered dog does not. The bitch loses no hormone production in most cases.

Does a more gentle male make for a more attentive dog, especially with the pack leader? or do you lose too much drive and a female wins out.

How important are hormones in developing a good GSD Service dog? The intelligence, energy level, and training also are factors.

No idea about your specific question, but wanted to point out that a spayed female doesn't produce sex hormones either. It's the same as a male that has been neutered. Without testes, a dog doesn't make testosterone. Without ovaries, a bitch doesn't make estrogen, progesterone, or testosterone.

I don't think it's accurate to say that a neutered male is automatically lower in pack rank than an intact female. I think it would depend on other temperament factors as well. That might be the case sometimes, but not always.

Tracy is right, and I think it's more important to take individual temperament into account (yours and the dog's).

My SD is a neutered male (Dobe), but is definitely at the upper end of the scale in terms of drive-level appropriate to a service dog, and that's not for everyone.

The more important question is: "What are your needs and what do you need from your dog?"

For discussion here, is how neutering alters pack order depending on sex, etc. Doesn't matter what you need them for...just a discussion, no right answer.

I can tell you from experience a fixed female cat will kick a neutered males ass.

I was wondering if the same behavior was found in neutered dogs.

I don't think it changes the dominance of the individual dog...may change its health though and scent.

My dutchie is like a service dog for me but is not official per se. (I'd like to solidify ignoring another dog at close proximity first anyhow, my neglect). He is not neutered and very high drive...but perfect for my condition. I don't see any reason to neuter him at all...they tend to loose muscle mass, I don't like that. I don't know if yours has to physically support you or not but something to consider.

Well, my male ended up the alpha over my female. He did stay a bit skinny and did not put so much muscle mass on. That was a very good point. He does need it to work. I regret listening to the VetDog Foundation now. They insisted he had to be fixed to be in program. I don't know if I could have fought it....It is their SOP. I was lucky enough to pick my own dog, raise him and then turn him over to them for training. I wanted a strong bond with my GSD. Boy he goes nuts when he sees the trainer though. He loves him. Live and Learn. Thank you all for your advice. This is the best board I have found.

I had a JRT that was neutered at 3. His whole life before and after was one of a cocky, in your face, I can still piss higher and farther then you attitude. He never met another dog that he didn't want to get in their space. I had no problem controlling him with nothing but my voice but he always had the attitude.

 Quote: Bob Scott

I had a JRT that was neutered at 3. His whole life before and after was one of a cocky, in your face, I can still piss higher and farther then you attitude. He never met another dog that he didn't want to get in their space. I had no problem controlling him with nothing but my voice but he always had the attitude.

Yes, I know Border Terriers (and others) who didn't change one iota after neutering, too ... at least not one iota of change in the personality/character department.






eta

I meant to add that only if the ovaries weren't removed would the female still produce estrogen. This kind of surgery is not at all common ... in fact, it would be extremely rare. The ovariohysterectomy is the usual spay procedure.

There is a recent move toward simpler spay surgery that accomplishes what most spays are meant to accomplish but removes the ovaries only, and of course renders the uterus no longer under stimulation by the ovaries.

Not that this has anything really to do with the question .... just wanted to agree that yes, the spaying procedure done virtually every single time until very recently, AND the newer "partial spay," both remove the means to produce estrogen.


(It's true that very small amounts of estrogen-like substances (phytoestrogens) not produced by the ovaries can be present.)




Edited by Connie Sutherland (11/14/2013 07:53 PM)
Edit reason: eta

This does sound good:

"I was lucky enough to pick my own dog, raise him and then turn him over to them for training."


Is the Foundation in on the choice of the dog?

Yes they were in on the choice of the dog. I needed a tall large dog for mobility or else the harness handle becomes long and cannot keep me from falling well. They also had an initial concern that I was not a wanna be K9 macho cop type. They actually told me that after they interviewed me. Go figure... Apparently they have had an issue before.

I am very familiar with GSDs. I have always had them as pets as a child. They are just so smart. The trainer was the one that pointed me your way for training disks so I would raise him right. He would tell me at certain points...you need to start teaching him "touch", etc. Very good people at VetDogs. The trainers name is Jim. He is great.

For the service dog I talked with the trainer, and met with representatives from the foundation. It was two years faster to raise the dog yourself and they prefer to have GSDs raised by their patients if possible due to the bond. They don't transfer owners as easy as retrievers.

One issue is that he needed to be trained to walk and support on the right side, putting me at the bottom of the list to start with a new puppy for training up. Malnoise were also considered for me.