First malinois- confused about what to do
#372626 - 01/26/2013 12:49 PM |
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I have a malinois thats about 1.5 years old. I want to get into schutzhund training with her (still looking for clubs or some other way to learn- so far im not impressed with the clubs i've been to).
I have never been into bitework sports before. My problem is is that she seems very wary of strangers and im not sure how much of a problem that is.
Today i went with her to walk around at a conformation show. A judge there was trying to convince me to work up to showing her. I'm not that intereseted in conformation but i listened to her talk.
So she starts touching my dog everywhere to look her over. at that point my dog is obviously uncomfortable, but i let her continue because she said she was familiar with the malinois breed and had trained for several years. I figured she knew what she was doing.
Then she lifts up my dogs gums and thats when she started growling at her. The judge wasn't susrprised and said that was common with the malinois breed.
Next thing I know the judge is roughing my dog up and batting her around, holding the leash tight so she couldn't escape. That got her growling more. She told me to correct my dog, so i did. Apparently she did it to 'show me what my dog was capable of'..?
My girl has always been wary of strangers. and sometimes she barks and raises her hackles when a stranger is approaching us.. especcially at night. And she pins her ears back when being pet by strangers. I generally give the strangers a piece of food to feed her. She rarly shows her teeth to people though- today was a one-time thing.
My question is: how do i go about fixing this? or is this even a big problem?
When do i correct her? i don't want to kil her drive for schutzhund. I don't mind her being protective, but only when the situation calls for it.
I question whether i should let people pet her at all. I've met several people who've said i should never let anyone pet my dog. Ideally i want for her to ignore strangers. but i also want her to do the 'stand for exam'. I want to get her CD.
So i'm getting mixed opinions from different dog people. At this point im not sure what to do with it
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Re: First malinois- confused about what to do
[Re: Ariel Vuichard ]
#372627 - 01/26/2013 01:24 PM |
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First thing is, what does "roughing my dog up and batting her around, holding the leash tight so she couldn't escape," mean exactly?
Do you actually mean slapping your dog? And then telling you to "correct your dog"?
You will get help here ..... please stick around for questions. Many very experienced members here, in desensitizing, and in earning and getting your girl's trust.
I'm glad you posted.
ETA
This incident has me shocked, to tell you the truth.
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Re: First malinois- confused about what to do
[Re: Ariel Vuichard ]
#372632 - 01/26/2013 02:04 PM |
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Can I just add before anything else:
Never do anything to your dog that you feel uncomfortable or doubtful about; I don't care who is telling you to do it.
IMO, if the most famous trainer around instructs you to do something you feel in your gut is not for you or not for your dog, don't do it. Learn more if you want, but before and not after you do what you are uneasy about.
As for a stranger taking control of and physically "roughing my dog up and batting her around, holding the leash tight so she couldn't escape" ..... this is absolutely unacceptable. I have more words than that, but unacceptable will have to do for now.
Again, I'm glad you posted. You have other things here that precede even considering SchH, IMO. You will get advice and help on all of the factors you bring up.
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Re: First malinois- confused about what to do
[Re: Ariel Vuichard ]
#372633 - 01/26/2013 01:16 PM |
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^^^
ditto!
A tired dog is a good dog, a trained dog is a better dog. |
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Re: First malinois- confused about what to do
[Re: Ariel Vuichard ]
#372634 - 01/26/2013 01:21 PM |
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No she was not hitting. Nothing that actually physically hurt her. I guess it was more like getting all up in her face. She took the leash from me and held it tight with her one hand (she also had her prong collar on). Then with her other hand it was almost like she was roughly rubbing her face and muzzle. And roughing her up almost like some people do when they play with their dogs.. of course my dog didn't want to play that game!! I hope that makes more sence. I only wish i had a video of it so it could be described better.
I will be right her for questions and suggestions . i appreciate any help i can get. I did not feel comfortable with the way she was handling my dog.. I have been a lurker on this forum for some time and can tell there are some good experienced people on here
.
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Re: First malinois- confused about what to do
[Re: Ariel Vuichard ]
#372635 - 01/26/2013 02:06 PM |
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No she was not hitting. Nothing that actually physically hurt her. I guess it was more like getting all up in her face. She took the leash from me and held it tight with her one hand (she also had her prong collar on). Then with her other hand it was almost like she was roughly rubbing her face and muzzle. And roughing her up almost like some people do when they play with their dogs.. of course my dog didn't want to play that game!! I hope that makes more sence. I only wish i had a video of it so it could be described better."
I will be right her for questions and suggestions . i appreciate any help i can get. I did not feel comfortable with the way she was handling my dog.. I have been a lurker on this forum for some time and can tell there are some good experienced people on here
.
"I did not feel comfortable with the way she was handling my dog.."
Never never allow anyone to do anything to/with your dog that you don't feel comfortable with. She had NO RIGHT to do such a thing as taking the leash "and held it tight with her one hand (she also had her prong collar on). Then with her other hand it was almost like she was roughly rubbing her face and muzzle. That got her growling more. She told me to correct my dog, so i did.
You were very right to question it. We learn as we go, so you won't let it happen in the first place if such a situation ever comes up again.
Part of what your dog will need to dial back her wariness around strangers (a BIG part) is a perception she needs to have that YOU are in charge, that YOU will make sure about who is and is not OK, and that YOU are her leader and protector.
"I will be right her for questions"
They'll follow, I know!
I'm off to training now, but I promise again that you will get help. (Weekends can be a little slow online, because a lot of training happens then.)
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Re: First malinois- confused about what to do
[Re: Ariel Vuichard ]
#372636 - 01/26/2013 01:59 PM |
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What kind of dog training experience do you have? With what breeds? Mals are not generally beginner dogs.
Is this dog from show or working lines? Where did you get her? Did you get her as a puppy? If not, do you know anything about the dog's history & training before you got her?
What kind of training/OB does she have on her at this point.
Where do you live? Are there any Ring clubs in your area? You might look into that also.
Like Connie said...NEVER let anyone touch your dog. Especially a dog that is not totally confident, is fearful, nervey, OR sharp in nature. That's just looking for trouble & a law suit.
Why do you think that strangers should touch your dog? Why encourage it by giving people food to feed her when you know it makes her uncomfortable. That's crazy. She just needs to learn to ignore people & you need to tell people to stay away from your dog. PERIOD! You DON'T have to be nice about it...it's your dog! Your dog .....your rules!
You are going to have more serious problems down the road with this dog, as she is maturing, if you don't get the situation with her & strangers under control. She needs to be able to walk by people & totally ignore them. If you don't she won't pass the BH for SchH anyway.
Do you know anything about desensitizing a dog? Do you use marker training with your dog?
You should focus on her behavior in public & building her confidence in public situations...before even thinking about any sport training.
MY DOGS...MY RULES
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Re: First malinois- confused about what to do
[Re: Ariel Vuichard ]
#372638 - 01/26/2013 02:32 PM |
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Hi Ariel, and welcome to the board! First of all, I have to say that Connie has expressed exactly the way I feel about the way this judge handled your dog. "Unacceptable" is the diplomatic way of describing it.
But the fact that she was trying to convince you to show your dog in conformation got me wondering. Did your dog come from a breeder who specializes in performance and sport type dogs, or perhaps from someone who breeds for AKC conformation? I ask because the two types of dogs differ drastically, as they do in so many other breeds. (And I'm not asking you to name your breeder here, just the type of dogs they are breeding.)
If your dog is more of the AKC conformation type, then perhaps she is not going to be cut out for schutzhund. You say you have visited some schutzhund clubs but were "not impressed." If this is a sport you want to pursue, I believe you need to find a club or an individual that you are comfortable with who can give you an honest assessment of your dog's suitability.
You also mention wanting to pursue your CD (the AKC companion dog title). Yes, it's true that your dog will have to stand for a very brief exam by the judge, who will be a stranger to her. But I don't believe the way to teach this is to let random strangers pet her and feed her. You may want to look around to see if there are any good obedience training clubs in your area. Do your homework, observe a few classes, talk to the instructors. A good club will have knowledgeable instructors who can help you with all the exercises required for the CD.
Again, this board is slow on the weekends. People are out training. I know you'll get better responses from the schutzhund folks out there!
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Re: First malinois- confused about what to do
[Re: Anne Jones ]
#372640 - 01/26/2013 03:04 PM |
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What kind of dog training experience do you have? With what breeds? Mals are not generally beginner dogs.
i went to the tom rose school. that is when i got her (we're required to have 2 pups for the school, and mals were highly recommended). That was last year. Before that i had little experience with training
Is this dog from show or working lines? Where did you get her? Did you get her as a puppy? If not, do you know anything about the dog's history & training before you got her?
working. both parents were dual purpose police dogs. I got her at 6 weeks
What kind of training/OB does she have on her at this point.
Her OB is definantly up to par. she was my main dog in helping me pass at tom rose. Here's the syllabus I had to do http://tomrose.com/certifications/undergraduate-programs/professional-dog-trainer-program
she could easily pass an akc open or a BH.
Where do you live? Are there any Ring clubs in your area? You might look into that also.
Yes i've thought of doing that. Honestly, I don't know too much about ringsports. But im in the st. louis area
Like Connie said...NEVER let anyone touch your dog. Especially a dog that is not totally confident, is fearful, nervey, OR sharp in nature. That's just looking for trouble & a law suit.
Why do you think that strangers should touch your dog? Why encourage it by giving people food to feed her when you know it makes her uncomfortable. That's crazy. She just needs to learn to ignore people & you need to tell people to stay away from your dog. PERIOD! You DON'T have to be nice about it...it's your dog! Your dog .....your rules!
Only reason i do is because thats what it was recommended i do so(not from tom rose, but other trainers). The only reason I'd like my dog to be okay with being pet is because I want her to be able to pass Novice A in OB and also because where I live people love to start petting your dog without asking. The last thing I want to happen is for her to not be used to anybody petting her and then suddently somebody walks up to her and they get bit before i even knew what happened.
Otherwise, I'd be completely fine with people NOT petting my dog.
You are going to have more serious problems down the road with this dog, as she is maturing, if you don't get the situation with her & strangers under control. She needs to be able to walk by people & totally ignore them. If you don't she won't pass the BH for SchH anyway.
She is okay with wakling by people.. well she notices them but only for a second. it's if people approach us that there's a problem.
Do you know anything about desensitizing a dog? Do you use marker training with your dog?
yes
You should focus on her behavior in public & building her confidence in public situations...before even thinking about any sport training.
yes i think so too. I've been trying to bring her with me everywhere i can.
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Re: First malinois- confused about what to do
[Re: Cheri Grissom ]
#372641 - 01/26/2013 03:11 PM |
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Hi Cheri. Thank you!
Thats actually the weird thing to me. She IS from working lines. both the parents were police dogs. I even told the judge i didn't think my dog would be up to par for conformation. she seemed to think otherwise
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