Have been feeding Tanka straight chicken backs. Checked in with my mentor who said add some more meat in so the last two days he has had some boneless skinless thighs too. One day we didn't have electricity so we were trying to keep the fridge and freezer closed, we stopped at the store and I had to buy bone in chicken breast for two meals. That didn't go over well. He was just starting out and the new piece kind of messed him up. He only ate about a third of it.

I would like to be able to start feeding him the leg quarters I bought. For now, I can get them $1 a pound and thighs are $1.40

I'm thinking a mixture of chicken backs and leg quarters for awhile until we can start adding in new foods.

I'm so thrilled that he has taken to it so well. My only problems are figuring out best way to feed in terms of clean up, how to store it, that kind of stuff. Plus then it will be trying to find the balance of foods and the right amount.

Would like any thoughts on leg quarters. Good idea? He seems to be a good bone chewer. I am now cutting up the boneless thighs. He can eat a large thigh cut into pieces in about 6 seconds. Then lick the bowl.

I know you'll get more and better answers after today (including from me), but I hopped online to ask about poops.

Are you seeing perfect logs? I believe you started 5-6 days ago, right? Have you seen logs every day?

Also ... do you mean how to store what you have thawed or are you referring to freezer storage? In my fridge, ALL the dog stuff is in one large square plastic container that's about 7 inches deep (it's the container that comes inside a big picnic cooler to hold foods up off the melting ice).

From a very old thread:

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Judy Troiano

Amber, the only thing I can add to this wonderful thread is something insignificant - containers. I used to use plastic bags for storing/thawing. No more.

I'm with Judy on being careful with raw meats (for the humans' sake). I do use plastic baggies, but all the ingredients for the dogs are stored in a separate bin in the 'fridge. It's just the tray from a big cooler -- that tray that is used to keep food suspended above the ice.

Baggies, butcher wrap -- all those things can leak, and I'd rather keep it all confined that have it dripping down into the vegetable drawers.

Now the clean-up .... are you feeding in a large flat-bottom bowl? More like a pan? So he doesn't need to pull out RMBs to manipulate them with his mouth?


And yes, depending on your poop answers, it will be time to increase the meat. RMBs have boneless meat added once the poops are completely under control. Then other items are added one by one.

PS

And yes, again depending on the poop answers, it will be fine to give leg qtrs and backs.

So tell us about the poops. No soft-serve and no round balls? All firm logs?

I would say 90% logs. Two times after logs he had a little bit of completely runny. That was Sunday and Monday I believe. And a couple times he had a rounder ball or two. Mostly just logs. I've been surprised by how good the poops are doing. On kibble it was one bigger normal poop, second runnier, and then one or two stops for a little completely runny, every morning.

The only reason I went for boneless is because that was what I had on hand. No particular reason I chose it except to get a more meat to bone ratio.

For storage, we do need another freezer. But we are deciding on freezer bags vs buying containers. I don't sit bags right in the fridge, they sit in a container to thaw. But it is still taking up quite a bit of space and we just need a good system.

Yes he has a nice size flat bottom no skid stainless bowl but the food comes out onto the floor where he licks it all around trying to lick out the organ parts first. If the weather allows I have has him eat outside but I don't like it in the yard. It takes him forever and he wants to roll on it. I have fed him on the porch and block the steps. I don't want a crate set up in the house all the time so that is out. I just keep cleaning the laundry floor.

Straight thighs he eats right out of the bowl.

Do I need to break up the bones in leg quarters when I do start feeding them?

"Straight thighs he eats right out of the bowl. "

Meaning bone-in thighs or just that boneless one? (I'm trying to figure out which are the parts that will stay in the bowl better by size and shape. Example: A back cut in half is about thigh size.)



Do you know the relationship between bones and poop? The ball-shape poops pretty much indicates that the bone content is a little too high (or, different way of accomplishing the same thing, that boneless meat needs to be added). A little bit of runny after almost all perfect logs doesn't worry me with no other symptoms.

So it sounds like more meaty quarters are fine to add, but let's figure out that bowl thing (or a plastic sheet under the bowl, or whatever).

Then the next thing, when those poops are perfect, could be a little boneless meat from another animal, and a tiny bit of organ to start organ slow (that's a typical diarrhea-trigger when added too fast).


The container I keep the baggies of meat and stuff in, in the fridge, is about 14x14, usually fairly full, for feeding about the same amount of dog weight that you are feeding. So it's less than half of a fridge shelf. You are right about a system .... this all streamlines kind of suddenly, I think, after a few weeks.

I'll toss this out there for what it's worth. Grinding RMBs is one solution to keeping the food in the bowl. It requires purchasing a meat grinder with enough moxy to handle bones (and the commitment of time to do this prep work), but there are some advantages, as well as at least one disadvantage.

Advantages: ground food is easier to store, package, and measure. Grinding may allow a dog to consume some foods they couldn't if left whole. Ground food can be cleaner to feed (i.e. the issue you're having of chicken parts being dropped on the floor, etc.) Reduced possibility of choking on a hunk of food.

Disadvantages: dogs don't get the tooth-cleaning benefits of tearing at RMBs. Deprives dogs of the pleasure of chewing/gnawing their food.

I grind the food for my pack. Usually 200-300 pounds at a time, then portion it into freezer bags--one meal per bag--that I can pop out of the freezer, thaw in the sink, dump in the bowls and bob's your uncle. The system requires several hours of my time about every 6 weeks or so to do all this prep work. But meal time itself couldn't be easier.

I didn't always grind. It started on the recommendation of my pro-raw veterinarian after my GSD bloated about 6 years ago. (The feeding had nothing to do with the bloat---the vet just didn't want to put any unnecessary stress on his recovering GI tract after the bloat surgery.) I liked grinding so much, I just never stopped.

Raw feeders who grind are a minority (I'm one of few on this board)--mostly because of the disadvantages I listed, plus the time it takes and the initial cost of the grinder. But a ground raw diet is nutritionally identical to an un-ground one.

Thank you Tracy for that info. I will keep that in mind if I ever feed a dog who would do better that way. But one of my main issues is keeping his teeth clean. For his life so far, parboiled knuckle bones did the trick as long as I watched him closely. The last year he has gotten so strong they do not hold up at all, sometimes less than 10 minutes before they have to be taken. Teeth have started to show tartar. That was one draw for me to go raw.

The food he eats directly from the bowl is boneless thighs. I am cutting them up because I don't like him swallowing them whole. I don't think I'll ever feed him a RMB in the kitchen because he can have it in the rugs in a second. I'm not sure if any boney piece would not get laid outside the bowl first. It's the first thing he does.

I don't have an issue with the plastic tablecloth on the floor, it just seemed that keeping it clean and not smelly or just a bad bacteria breeding ground wouldn't be more of an issue than cleaning the floor. Unless its really cold, stormy or dark, I don't mind the porch.

Do I need to always watch him eat?

 Quote: Julie Sloan

Thank you Tracy for that info. I will keep that in mind if I ever feed a dog who would do better that way. But one of my main issues is keeping his teeth clean. For his life so far, parboiled knuckle bones did the trick as long as I watched him closely. The last year he has gotten so strong they do not hold up at all, sometimes less than 10 minutes before they have to be taken. Teeth have started to show tartar. That was one draw for me to go raw.

The food he eats directly from the bowl is boneless thighs. I am cutting them up because I don't like him swallowing them whole. I don't think I'll ever feed him a RMB in the kitchen because he can have it in the rugs in a second. I'm not sure if any boney piece would not get laid outside the bowl first. It's the first thing he does.

I don't have an issue with the plastic tablecloth on the floor, it just seemed that keeping it clean and not smelly or just a bad bacteria breeding ground wouldn't be more of an issue than cleaning the floor. Unless its really cold, stormy or dark, I don't mind the porch.

Do I need to always watch him eat?

Are you maintaining a third to a half of the meat-food as RMBs? I'm asking because of the boneless thighs.

One of the people in our club feeds (with a bowl) inside a small kids' wading pool (the hard molded-plastic kind) and rinses it with the hose if the dog takes food out of the bowl.

I used to use a smallish plastic tarp, not allow food off the tarp (this took only a few days of standing there with a baggy'd hand to move each piece from the edge back to the middle before the dog caught on), and wiping it each time with a paper towel dampened with cleaner (I don't use household antibiotic cleaners).

But all of my dogs have gradually become adept at raw inside the bowl, with my help: very big, flat, low-sided bowls, and cutting RMBs into the size each dog needed to eat with little wrestling. I use almost all backs for RMBs, and they are a third of the meat-food; I add additional meat in the form of boneless meat from another animal. (I have a good pair of kitchen shears as well as my big heavy butcher knife (and I know several people who also have a good sharp cleaver).

Does the porch have a roof? Is there a part where people don't normally walk? Is there a window onto the porch, and no access to roaming dogs? To me, that sounds like a good place to feed, and the window a good vantage point.

PS

I brush the dogs' teeth, too, and use the squirty enzyme gumline stuff made by the toothpaste company.

Raw isn't enough for every dog to maintain sparkling teeth .... a few have a crooked tooth or crooked teeth, a low level of saliva production, or other plaque triggers.

But that said, I sure do agree with the people who say that their dogs have much better teeth on raw than on kibble (although it's possible that a dental might be needed to remove old tartar that's been building for years).

I found tooth-crud-production to be a very individual and variable thing. Of the 6 dogs I've fed raw their entire lives, 2 still develop enough tartar that it requires occasional scaling. All mind get their teeth brushed at least once a week, and satisfy their chewing urge (plus teeth cleaning) with hard chew toys.