I use a Mini-Educator, which I love love love, BUT I have this one issue: the receiver slips on my dog's neck from where I want it behind her ear/corner of her jaw, down to her throat/trachea area where I absolutely don't want it. The trainer who taught me how to use it told me if it is positioned on the throat then it pretty much hurts no matter what setting its on, and I've read that may be linked to thyroid problems. My dog has super short fur (boxer/APBT mix) and I think that is part of the problem. No matter how tight I put the strap it slips down, and I have tried multiple different types of straps - nylon, biothane buckle, biothane with a bungee - as well as different sizes of contact points, and it still happens no matter what.

I am trying to brainstorm and see if there is any kind of material I can glue to the inside of the biothane strap to keep it from sliding around but without being so sticky as to tug on her fur or pull it out (those horrid silicone cell phone cases come to mind - how many innocent hairs have been ripped out of my head on those stupid things).

So, any ideas?

 Quote: Allie Gagnon

The trainer who taught me how to use it told me if it is positioned on the throat then it pretty much hurts no matter what setting its on, and I've read that may be linked to thyroid problems.

I use a Mini-Educator too, with the biothane-bungee (metal quick-lock clasp) on my Dobermans, but their e-collars pretty much stay right in place -- However, my dogs' wear them only as a Fail-Safe, and don't need to be stimmed...

Does your dog show any SIGNS that the Ultra-low Stim actually HURTS her at all, Allie? Is she vigorously shaking her head to dislodge the e-collar because the Stim is so High that it's PAINFUL to her -- Have you ever experimented with it on your own throat at Ultra-low Settings ... How are you evaluating whether or NOT the e-collar Stim Hurts your dog?

 Quote: Candi Campbell

Does your dog show any SIGNS that the Ultra-low Stim actually HURTS her at all, Allie? Is she vigorously shaking her head to dislodge the e-collar because the Stim is so High that it's PAINFUL to her -- Have you ever experimented with it on your own throat at Ultra-low Settings ... How are you evaluating whether or NOT the e-collar Stim Hurts your dog?

The reason I don't want the collar sliding around is because the front of the neck is not muscular, it's mainly just the larynx, thyroid, and trachea, and some cartilage. Delivering stim directly to the larynx doesn't sound like a smart idea to me, no matter how low the setting. The bulk of muscles in the neck are at the sides and back, those are the places that are going to get the appropriate muscle contraction feeling that the collars are made for.

Not only that, but the same level of stim feels different depending on where its delivered. On the pad of my hand my "working level" is about a 35 but on my neck it's a lot lower. I always use ultra low stim on my dog, but if her working level is a 5 on the side of her neck, but then the collar moves to a different position, her level might go down to a 2 or 3, and I may have just blasted her with a 5 on a more sensitive area where even a 5 out of 100 was too much.

To answer your question, I don't actually *know* from experience that it hurts her in that position, (I do know she doesn't show any sign of pain on low stim when its in the correct position,) because for those reasons I just said, to me it does not make sense to even risk it. I'd rather just find a way to hold the collar more securely or if nothing else, just keep fixing it when it moves like I do now.

I just re-read my last post and I'm not sure if I clearly answered you, I kind of got lost in the details there I think.

What I should add is that she does not shake her head, or verbalize, or scratch at the collar, or show any other sign of pain or discomfort at the levels we use it on. She only rarely needs stim, she usually responds to a verbal "uh-uh" warning, or a verbal with a vibration, and stim is a last resort measure at this point in our training.

The slipping of the collar seems to be, as best as I can tell, happening with the movement of her head up and down - as in when she is dropping her head to the ground to sniff, and then picking it back up to look ahead and move on.

 Quote: Allie Gagnon

...What I should add is that she does not shake her head,
or verbalize,
or scratch at the collar,
or show any other sign of pain or discomfort at the levels we use it on.
She only rarely needs stim,
she usually responds to a verbal "uh-uh" warning, or a verbal with a vibration,
and stim is a last resort measure at this point in our training...

Then if it were me, I would trust what my DOG is "Telling Me",
rather than worrying over what that trainer IMAGINES about "throat pain", Allie

She only needs a Low-level Stim quite RARELY -- And then your dog shows NO SIGNS of pain when receiving the very Brief Stim ... IMHO, there seems to be no point in you stressing out over this, since the dog seems FINE with it.

I appreciate that Candi - I'm an analyzer and a worrier by nature haha.
It isn't so much about the discomfort issue so much as the fact still remains that her larynx and thyroid glands are right there, I just won't ever be comfortable with that - regardless of if she ever tells me it hurts her or not. We could do damage unknowingly to that area without actually causing pain, and with a 10 year old dog, it isn't worth the risk of screwing up her thyroid or causing laryngeal problems down the road.
I appreciate you helping out with your advice, I really do, I just have thought a lot about this and I stand firmly in my risk assessment that using stim, however rarely, briefly, or gently, is potentially unsafe for the larynx, thyroid, trachea and anything other than muscle tissue.

 Quote: Allie Gagnon

I appreciate that Candi - I'm an analyzer and a worrier by nature haha.
It isn't so much about the discomfort issue so much as the fact still remains that her larynx and thyroid glands are right there, I just won't ever be comfortable with that - regardless of if she ever tells me it hurts her or not. We could do damage unknowingly to that area without actually causing pain, and with a 10 year old dog, it isn't worth the risk of screwing up her thyroid or causing laryngeal problems down the road.
I appreciate you helping out with your advice, I really do, I just have thought a lot about this and I stand firmly in my risk assessment that using stim, however rarely, briefly, or gently, is potentially unsafe for the larynx, thyroid, trachea and anything other than muscle tissue.

OK, then if I were you, I would just dispense with using an e-collar altogether -- That way, you won't have to worry about it anymore, Allie

I'm just going to experiment to see if there's any material I can put on the inside of the collar to keep it from moving around. It's still a valuable training tool to me and it's taken her recall from 95% reliable to 100% reliable, I don't want to lose that and go back to the long line on our "freedom walks". Worst case scenario it doesn't work and I just keep doing what I'm doing now which is just sliding the collar back into place every so often when it slips too far down.

 Quote: Allie Gagnon

...I just keep doing what I'm doing now which is just sliding the collar back into place every so often when it slips too far down.

No fret, no sweat

E-collars have been used for decades. If there was any merit to your worry about stimming various structures in the neck it would have been found by now especially since stim levels used to be much MUCH higher. The stim does not travel to the structures you are worrying about or if it does it doesn't cause problems.

Put the e-collar where it will stay the easiest. That way the stim is consistent and you aren't fighting the collar constantly. You will not hurt your dog. I fit my Cattle Dog right under an ear along the jaw with a plain biothane strap and hypoallergenic contact points. My American Bulldog is fitted with a comfort contact pad and a bungee collar. I position hers a tiny bit lower than most do. It sits better that way. I also pull her skin up from under the collar slightly. That keeps it from moving when she drops her head pretty well. Right on the throat is her normal positioning especially with the contact pad. The contact pad makes it slip around more. No problem with the placement.