I am wondering how some of you start your puppies on the grip and focus work. I have a 9 week old puppy with lots of prey drive but his mouth is still a little small to get a good hold of the ball on the string. I will play with him with rags and things but I just was wondering around what age you begin to transition into the more structured play of running them in circles and taking them into your arms that you see in the Flinks Video Building Drive FOcus and Grip? Question #2 I have also heard that you should always allow the dog to win tug sessions to build confidence but in the video they talk alot about jerking the ball or prey item out of the dogs mouth to create a firm grip. Any Opinions???? Thanks for the help. I have raised and trained some retrievers but this is my first schutzhund dog.

i'm giving this thread a bump up so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle. i think these questions warrant some answers.

The best answer I can give is Ed's tape "Bite training for Puppies". Jerking the ball out of the dogs mouth is only done with a dog that has it's adult teeth.

Thanks Patricia! I am in no hurry with this dog but I was just wondering the general thoughts behind these concepts.

The dog/puppy is allowed to win when you are directly "fighting" him with the rag - in his mind, his monster grip wins the battle.

You recover the prey item by trickery - the dog isn't paying attention ( usually young dogs/puppies aren't 100% focused on *anything* ) and the item is snatched away from him - no conflict is created then.

And you don't have to pull the item directly away from him - an easy way to get your item back is to simply offer him a new item that's in motion ( and hence more interesting ) , most dogs will drop the item that's in their mouth to start for the new item. You keep up the prey motions ( don't let the dog take the new item, of course - you're just teasing him with it ) until you've moved the dog/puppy away from the item that he had been holding ( which is now obviously on the ground ). You then place the new object that you had been using to tease him in your pocket, and simply put the dog away. Make sure that you do not allow the dog to grab up the item that was laying on the ground, once you've stopped teasing him.

This is actually easy to explain but seems to be pretty darn hard for people that are new to the sport to physically do. It takes a while to get your timing and foot work down right to get this to work well, and it becomes even harder when you have a fast, driven dog that is doing the work. And you *will* get nipped now and then doing this type of drive work, that's just how it goes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hope this helps!

Thanks Will that definitely helps. Does the more formal work of into my arms and running in a circle start after the teething is done with?

I would start the bringing of the dog into your arms at the earliest age that the dog will tolerate it. With a puppy, even getting him to stand still for one to two seconds would be fine, and would make for a good base to build from. High drive dogs usually don't really want to stand still during training, and building up a base of comfort and trust in a puppy/ young dog will pay off big as he gets older.

I agree with Will. Go at the pups pace. Every dog develops at different speed. Take your time and build comfort and trust like Will said and it will build the confidence.

Dave

So Will,

When you put the puppy up ( I guess in the crate?) after you get the object out of it's mouth, by teasing it with another toy, this builds drive and the desire to win and hold onto the prey item the next time he gets to "play"? How long should the pup remain in the crate before you can bring it out again and repeat the drive building exercise?

Curtis - *exactly* right! The time between sessions varies depending on the pups drive, maturity and stamina. You can best determine the time needed by experimenting, if you try to initiate another session too soon before the pup is ready for any of those reasons, it's response will not be as good as the initial session and you can adjust the rest period accordingly.

Edit done cauz I spel gud.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />