I have an online journal at livejournal.com, and I also participate in a few communities over there too. Today, someone posted in the "germanshepherds" community asking about Leerburg, and sparked a lively discussion. If anyone has any interest, here's the link:

http://www.livejournal.com/community/germanshepherds/54450.html?view=291250#t291250

(psst...don't tell 'em I sent ya...I don't want to get blamed if any flame wars start up.)

**I'm "VTLadyhawke" over there, if anyone's interested. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I took a look at the thread.... :rolleyes:

Here on the Leerburg forum, people can't hide their opinions behind an anonymous name - they have to have the balls to post their question, view, or idea right out in the open, and it's open to all for debate. Different views and ideas can be examined, and you can determine their worth a whole lot easier than the good ol' "anonymous" post. A poster can post what they know and back up their view with experience and facts...or they can post as "anonymous" on other boards and impotently snipe at a breeder who has spent a ton of time and effort to educate people. It sounds a lot like jealousy from where I sit.
Charline, let me know when the un-named posters that feel compelled to insult Ed have their own 3500 page website full of training info up, OK? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Flame wars with cowards that hide behind the internet is none too satisfying.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Ain't it amazing what success can do to the people that cant reach it!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

Originally posted by Will Rambeau:
I took a look at the thread.... :rolleyes:

Here on the Leerburg forum, people can't hide their opinions behind an anonymous name - they have to have the balls to post their question, view, or idea right out in the open, and it's open to all for debate. Different views and ideas can be examined, and you can determine their worth a whole lot easier than the good ol' "anonymous" post. A poster can post what they know and back up their view with experience and facts...or they can post as "anonymous" on other boards and impotently snipe at a breeder who has spent a ton of time and effort to educate people. It sounds a lot like jealousy from where I sit.
Charline, let me know when the un-named posters that feel compelled to insult Ed have their own 3500 page website full of training info up, OK? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Flame wars with cowards that hide behind the internet is none too satisfying.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I just looked at the thread again, and a few opinions have been added since I last read it. Granted, I don't agree with some of Ed's methods, but that's why I have a brain of my own. Some of his ideas make sense, but others, I just have to agree to disagree with him. I don't believe in jumping to conclusions and calling someone an "opinonated asshat" just because they have different opinions than you. This site has some controversial methods that aren't for everyone, and that's fine. If you can make his methods work for you, fine. In addition, this site isn't just about *Ed's* training methods...that's why we have this message board! It's a public forum for people with common interests and views to discuss various topics. I'm sure there are other people out there that don't completely agree with Ed's methods, but they agree to disagree, like mature adults! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Originally posted by Charline Touchard:
This site has some controversial methods that aren't for everyone, and that's fine. If you can make his methods work for you, fine.



What controversial METHODS? Just curious....

And as for making "his" methods work for you, again....what method is that?

I wasn't aware that a specific METHOD was promoted on Leerburg's website?
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

controversial methods that aren't for everyone, and that's fine. If you can make his methods work for you, fine. In addition, this site isn't just about *Ed's* training methods...that's why we have this message board!

Well, the 3500 pages of training articles here on Leerburg are pretty much Ed's training methods - or methods from other folks that Ed has found to work. Feel free to post some links to *ANYONE* who has taken that much time, effort, and expensive to gather his own ( and many other top hands in the field, like the Tracking unit of the RCMP, for one ) ideas that have been tested on so many different dogs of varying temperment and place them where people can read them for *free*.

And I also wonder what the term controversial methods means. And as far as taking his training methods and making them work for you, Ummm...how can you *not* make them work? They'll work fine on the vast majority of dogs, and they'll work much better than 90% of the other training concepts. Also, please remember, this is a *WORKING DOG* site - I'd be glad to closely examine the training plan for a dog that will be taken to a SchH III, or readied for Police Patrol work strictly by some other concept, such as clicker training, but I don't think that'll happen.

And yep, the trolls certainly came out on that other forum. You have Shooter McGavin, who is actually Adam Katz ( sorry, it's the *exact* same writing from a private conversation from Katz, no one else would have been able to copy it - it's him ) who adds another $700 to the price of a puppy from Ed. Then there is Steve Leigh, who has devoted a entire Website to people that disagree with him ( his other website goes on and on about suicide methods and his severe depression - sad ). Steve apparently cruises google everyday, and whenever a discussion mentions Leerburg or Ed ( and some other people ) he immediately adds his useless comments. His cyber-stalking is just another display of his fairly serious mental illness.

Charline, Check your PM's! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I just wanted to clarify a few things in my last post. It was kind of written on-the-fly, and I apologize if I wasn't clear about some things. To refresh everyone's memory, this is what I originally wrote:

This site has some controversial methods that aren't for everyone, and that's fine. If you can make his methods work for you, fine.

I guess I used the wrong terminology by saying "controversial methods". The training ideas presented on this website are great for working dogs, but not for everyone. Alison_in_oh over on the other forum disagrees with almost everything I do...I think she believes in clicker training or something like that. As far as "making his methods work for you"...disregard that statement. I was talking out of my arse, and I shouldn't do that. Again, I apologize for confusing anyone here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Crystal clear explanation, thanks!

Sorry to alter the topic but our old friend Steve Leigh showed up at the Live Journal forum and posted his usual nonsense.

You can see his post and my reply at

http://www.livejournal.com/community/germanshepherds/54450.html?view=342450#t342450