I dont here too much about them on this site, does anyone out there like them? How do they compare with Rotts? More and more are being titled in schutzhund all the time. Appearance wise I like them better than Rotts.

I read a book called "K-9 Bodyguard". It is about training for personal protection. The author is a retired k-9 cop and is a die hard american bulldog fan. He thinks they should be used as police dogs. I don't know about that, but I do know they looked pretty tough in that book. All that aside, did I read that correctly???? You think they look better than Rotts?? lol...come on, lets be real here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

American Bulldogs are in general tougher than rotts, but Joe is right. American Bulldogs are ugly as sin, whereas Rotts may be the most beautiful (purely subjective) of the protection breeds, unless we can indulge in counting the Shar-Pei as a protection breed, in which case, as we all will agree, the Shar-Pei wins the beauty contest hands down.

The k-9 author simply values their toughness, strength, and assumed intimidation value more than the qualities possessed by the standard police breeds, disputes that they are harder to train, and isn't concerned with their dog aggressiveness or bad image. I don't think most share his assumptions and relative priorities. For what it's worth, I disagree with many of his assumptions, and like them a lot more as a home protection dog than trying to make them a police service dog.

The American Bull Dog is one hard hitting, biting dog and the ABD fraternity in North America is trying hard to bring the breed into the mainstream but as far as a protection dog goes then IMHO this breed has a way to go.

Let me go on record as saying that I like the breed but they are bred to be animal aggressive and not people aggressive. They make excellent Catch Dogs.

Last summer I Judged several young ABD in a Fiestiest Puppy Contest at the Canadian ABD National Event. All in all very strong protection prospects. There was not any really weak biters in amongst the whole crew of about 25-30 dogs that I judged.

BUT

I myself own an ABD Hybrid who is one of the hardest biting dogs I own and she takes more stick pressure than any of my Malinois but bring another animal into the picture and our hybrid leaves the bite on the suit and goes and guzzels the other dog or animal in a mere few seconds.

Perhaps the very best ABD that I have ever watched work was Neil Alberts Oden Ring III and I hear that Metcalfs dog Gubby is real nice but these are the exceptions as these owners would have titled any breed that they wanted to work with.

Dave Putnam wants to highlight the ABD through his Iron Dog Tests and I did watch one take place but it is geared in far to much generalities.
Better than no tests.

By the way the woman who won the Working Puppy Contest that I Judged has joined John Johnstons Ring Sport Club in Mass I believe, so we should hear more about this ABD in the future.

Jerry

I agree with Jerry. I think people who are breeding these type of dogs need to really try to concentrate on them being less aggressive to animals and more on people. I think it would help the breed with protection work. It was really make them more competitive with the other breeds.

I've never been around these dogs, so I can't say anything about them other than what I've read. I've heard they're hard ass dogs. I have heard though many things pretaining to what Jerry mentioned though as well. I know being able to control a dog in public around other animals would be a major concern to me. For some people it may not. I guess it comes down to what you want.

Just food for thought . . .

Originally posted by Jerry Cudahy:
Let me go on record as saying that I like the breed but they are bred to be animal aggressive and not people aggressive. They make excellent Catch Dogs.

I myself own an ABD Hybrid who is one of the hardest biting dogs I own and she takes more stick pressure than any of my Malinois but bring another animal into the picture and our hybrid leaves the bite on the suit and goes and guzzels the other dog or animal in a mere few seconds.

Jerry Jerry,
I dont think that is a fair statement. I myself have american bulldogs and it all depends on the lines your working with. I was under the impression you had a pup from JEL. What part of her is hybrid??
In very general terms johnson dogs are considered more civil/man agressive where scott lines are more prey driven. Their history MAY take you back to the animal aggression.

As a breed they are considered to be dominant aggressive as to straight out aggressive. The trait you describe in your girl is not desired by most and is not considered the norm. Most abs will not go out looking for a fight but tf their dominance is challenged will.

I do have to state a good one for sport work is probably hard to come by. I have one now and I couldnt be happier, either could my schutzhund trainer. I have found the best bet is a true hybrid but some are finding luck with the other strains. I think the dog your are referring to that you judged is also a true hybrid if I am not mistaken. They seem to have a nice balance.

As for looks, gosh I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder as I have only seen one rottie that knocked my socks off.

Tracey

Tracey. I think Jerry is speaking in general terms. He's not talking to you or your dog in particulr. Relax . . .

Why is it when someone hears ONE thing about something they do or have, they automatically act like it applies directly to them?????

ANY personal protection or police dog that reacts without a command by their handler if ANYTHING challenges them has no place on the steet. What you mention is exactly what he means, not wether the reason is justified!

Wolf,

I think Tracey's comments are actually very helpful, and not overly sensitive (more informative). I had no idea that the ABs are very different depending on the lines. They even differ in size from what I have been told by people that deal with them.

Tracey put forward a very accurate description of the breed, and the problems with them. One other thing about using ABs for Schutzhund, I don't remember which line it is but one of the lines are much bigger than the other. The big ones would have problems with the jumps involved with Sch. They are just to big and have too short of legs to make the jumps easily like other breeds can.

Thanks Richard,
I wasnt being overly sensitive, in fact Wolf your post took me by surprise. I was trying to share my knowledge as someone who has been in the breed hands on for seven plus years. I am not just referring to my own dogs. I am not a person that just spouts things off out of pure speculation and opinion. If I dont feel I have something valid to say I just wont say anything.

The larger ones you speak of are the Johnson strain. That is why most dogs that do well in sport work are the hybrids as they have the civility of the johnson strain but with the more althetic bodies of the scott strain.

Also most catch dogs are not straight out aggressive as on many hunts more than one dog is used. There are some sub-strains that have the same background as pits and these are the ones that will generally have no human aggression but will show animal aggression. Again this is not the norm. I do know JEL also uses pits in his program. I dont know if there is any in the girl that you have, Jerry, but maybe he is breeding for the same desired characteristics. I dont really know that you would have to ask the man directly.
Tracey

Hi Tracy, Yes my girl from JEL is 7/8th ABD and 1/8th real pit. This is why I call her a hybrid. She (Scarlet) is a very large female. She has to be getting close to 85 lbs. There is no doubt in my mind. Scarlet who is now just coming up to one year of age is the hardest biting dog in our whole Kennel but this does not make for the better protection dog in my mind as real protection dogs are focused on men as the object to fight where a lot of ABD and my own Scarlet would rather mix it up with another animal over a man.

As for the lady who's dog I chose as the strongest working pup I did not nor even care to know if any of the dogs presented to me were Johnsons, Scotts, Hybrids or Mixes. I was only interested in which dog showed more potential to work.

Her's did that day.

I will repeat here again. I like the ABD as a breed and in my mind like to think that some of them will make very good dogs for protection based sports but the real background of the breed is not founded on Man Work but rather Catch Work.

ABD like Neil's Oden and Francis's dog are a major credit to the ABD and what Neil and Francis have done with their respective ABD should be looked upon by ABD breed freaks as doors opening for future ABD owners.

Jerry