As an old trainer/handler, I am always pleasantly surprised when I learn new tricks/concepts to become a better trainer.( hence my driving around the country to attend as many Bernhard Flinks seminars as I can <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )I *never* thought that agility would be useful in my SchH training- boy, was I wrong.

I got the video " Training the Agility Dog" with Peter Lewis, an English Agility trainer,from Ed for my wife, who's an up and coming agility handler, and watched it with her. The usefulness of some of the training tips was immediately apparent to me. I started using his traing method for the A frame and it has totally trained my male GSD to cleanly handle that event. My SchH club members are all re-training their dogs now with this technique after seeing how simple and effective it is. I could kick myself for not having thought of it myself years ago <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> . There are several other tips that also have crossover usefulness in SchH. Of course, if you show in Agility...you *gotta* have this tape.

I highly recommend this tape to broaden most trainer's ability to teach our dogs to obtain the highest points possible in a trial.
Video 303 "Training the Agility Dog"

Haven't seen the video, but I sure can agree that agility training can be helpful in Schutzhund. I took a break from Sch for 2 yrs and did only agility and loved it. These two GSDs were taught the agility Aframe before they learned the Sch wall, and it resulted in excellent technique for safe, quick execution - no flying leaps from the top of the Aframe. And the subtlety of body language signals that they learned from agility has definitely improved their heeling. And that's not to mention the fun and self-confidence it instills in youngsters.

What "technique" are we talking about for A-frames.

Target points?

There are several good ones - but all involve backchaining from the far side and teaching the dog to go all the way to the bottom of the wall, either finishing with two paws on the ground and two paws on the wall (called 2-on/2-off), or doing a running contact (which I do) where they touch and release on their own. I personally don't like 2on/2off for our large, heavy breeds. It's fantastic for border collies, at a whopping 30 pounds, but when you have 85 pounds coming down steeply onto the frontend and prop-stopping, they don't stay sound long. But by teaching it from the end (the final part of the wall) and backchaining, the dog learns not to bail off the wall prematurely. Mine can't run all the way to the bottom on a Sch wall due to the steepness, but they do run below the level of the lowest rung, which gives them a very safe, smooth departure from the wall.

My daughter is doing a very nice job with her APBT and this video.

Rob, the technique is actually a variation of contact points using hula hoops. The dogs go thru the hoops on the flat originally, and they target these so well that I haven't seen a dog trained with these not do a beautiful scale up and down the A frame .

My club members think I'm brilliant for introducing this at our training field ( my wife will quickly dispel this illusion however, to all within earshot <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )
There are several other handler tricks for jumps and positioning your dog that make the tape an excellent addition to a training library. If you're like me and embarassed to have anyone see an agility tape in your training library, just slap a sticker over the box and write "kiddie porn" over it...no one will ever know.

*JUST KIDDING* about the sticker change!

Will, yer killin' me brudda. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I'll just have to hide it next to my red Petsmart clicker under my matress when the boyz come over to visit.

SSSSsssshhhhhhhhhh. . .don't tell!!

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The hoops idea was big about 4-5 yrs ago, and all the top folks tried it to encourage the dog to keep his center of gravity low and run right thru the contacts. Worked great - til the hoops come off and then the dogs went back to jumping off the equipment. The target techniques of 2on/2off or a foot touch for a running target proved far more reliable becuz the dog learned to OFFER a behavior to be allowed to continue. It was simple positive reinforcement, whereas the hoops are an artificial constraint that forces the dog to conform, but they found it didn't really teach the dog to offer the behavior when the cue of the hoop wasn't there.

Well, with enough pattern training, most dogs will repeat a behavior without the assisting aids. If they do not, you haven't done enough repeations of the exercise.

That's what everyone thought; didn't work. It's not operant, that's why it fails. You're not teaching the dog that his behavior has consequences. He has absolutely no choice about negotiating the obstacle when there are hoops on it; he HAS to stay on the wall or dogwalk and stay low. But the cue for the behavior is the physical obstruction, the hoop, itself. So when the cue disappears, so does the behavior. You aren't so much teaching the dog to run to the bottom of the obstacle as you are teaching him to run thru the hoops. When the hoops come off, you can't cue the behavior; you're simply relying on muscle memory to keep him performing it the same way. When you teach either a touch or a 2on/2off behavior, there are no artificial supports involved that eventually have to be faded, and the behavior is purely operant - he has the ability to fail to perform it, but then the consequence is that he is not allowed to go on, which is his goal. He has to go back and repeat it until he offers the correct behavior, and then he is rewarded. Since he controls the consequences, the behavior becomes very strong. Nancy Gyes (many, many time national champion and world team member, Linda Mecklenburg, Guy Blancke (vice-world champion) and many other international competitors have tried the hoops, but they have all gone to other methods that are more persistent and reliable.