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Evidence Search
#6785 - 09/23/2001 09:56 PM |
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Not sure if this is the right place for this topic, but . . . when you are training for evidence search, specifically firearms, what are you training the dog on? Gun oil? (I remember reading somewhere that all guns were test fired in the factory and cleaned, so all guns would have some oil). Gun powder? If so, are you not concerned that the dog may also alert on explosives? Do you train on actual guns and then have to proof them off of everything else metal?
Looking forward to getting input on this, thanks!
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Re: Evidence Search
[Re: Joy Tiz ]
#6786 - 09/26/2001 09:50 AM |
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I could be wrong but here is my understanding of a PSD looking for evidence. A dog smells in a way that I relate to humans seeing. A PSD should be trained to detect what doesn't fit and/or what has the most fresh human scent in the area. As a police officer, you don't always know what you are looking for so if your dog was trained to locate gun oil and the guy really had a knife...see where I'm going? Training should be done with objects that you might be looking for one day. A gun, knife, jewelry, keys, etc.
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Re: Evidence Search
[Re: Joy Tiz ]
#6787 - 09/26/2001 04:33 PM |
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If you're at all interested in teaching the dog scent discrimination, then you would have the dog first learn to pick from several identical objects the one that has your scent on it. Then you would have the dog pick from several identical objects the one that has another person's scent on it. Over time you work toward being able to give the dog a scent article, such as the suspect's hat or shirt, or even have him take scent off the suspect's car seat, then have the dog search an area for anything with that person's scent on it. If you don't want to get that fancy, then yes, you would teach the dog to indicate any object in the search area with any human scent.
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Re: Evidence Search
[Re: Joy Tiz ]
#6788 - 09/26/2001 05:43 PM |
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But what if you want to train the dog to alert specifically on hidden firearms?
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Re: Evidence Search
[Re: Joy Tiz ]
#6789 - 09/26/2001 07:19 PM |
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This is not my area, but what I understand about the way scent works is that human scent is not going to "stick" to a firearm for a great deal of time, as firearms are generally made of metal. What I would say is basically the same as I already said. You have to work up to firearms by starting with items made from leather, such as wallets or gloves, and add in more difficult things such as wood blocks, then add in some metal things like spoons or knives. Once the dog understands what he's supposed to be doing and is capable of finding all of these basic objects, I would then start using bullet casings and real guns (unloaded, of course!). But start basic, and again, decide if you want the dog to discriminate between individual odors or indicate anything that anyone has touched.
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Re: Evidence Search
[Re: Joy Tiz ]
#6790 - 09/26/2001 08:37 PM |
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J,
This is where I'm confused. If we want the dog to indicate a hidden firearm *only*, let's say, hypothetically a school locker search, why would we want him to indicate on other items? Perhaps I said it wrong initially by referring to this as *evidence search*? I'm thinking we would want to train on odors specific to firearms only, but then what specific odors do we want?
Sorry if I didn't make the question clear.
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Re: Evidence Search
[Re: Joy Tiz ]
#6791 - 09/26/2001 09:29 PM |
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Yeah, I see what you're saying. Do firearms actually have a specific odor that is detectable to a dog? I guess that's the question I would ask first. If so, then I would train only with real firearms, and make sure to use tongs or something so that you don't get any of your scent on them, so the dog learns that she or he is looking for the gun, not the human scent.
I am very curious now, does anyone even know if guns have a particular odor?
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Re: Evidence Search
[Re: Joy Tiz ]
#6792 - 09/26/2001 09:39 PM |
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I always use gloves during the imprinting. What I was thinking was gun oil, b/c I've read that *all* guns are test fired at least once by the manufacturer, so they will all have the scent of gun oil. My concern w/using gun powder would be the dog alerting on explosives that are made w/gunpowder. My other concern w/using actual guns would be having to then proof the dog off of all other metal objects. Am I making sense?
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Re: Evidence Search
[Re: Joy Tiz ]
#6793 - 09/27/2001 01:30 AM |
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You're making total sense, just wish I could help ya! I use scent articles, but very differently from what you would like to do. Somebody's gotta know, though!
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Re: Evidence Search
[Re: Joy Tiz ]
#6794 - 09/27/2001 08:20 AM |
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Joy,
I've seen dogs trained as "Firearm" detectors. Mainly in the private sector used as you mentioned to search schools, deter guns being brought there.
I was told they were imprinted with "Gun Oil", cleaning solvents.....introduced in towels. Also hidden fired and unfired weapons. Dogs I saw were agressive alert.
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