I am starting my dogs on a raw diet once their kibble runs out and am gathering the necessary ingredients. My dogs are an 88# male Golden, 45# female Golden, and 65# male Border Collie. Have read Ed's diet for adults, as well as Raw Dig Food, and plan on following those guidelines. The questions I have are about adding supplements.

Can I buy items such as the Omega 3, Super C and Vitamin E at the local drug store, and if so, do I get the tablets and put them in their food or do these come in powder form? I could not find Super C though.

Also, my 10 mth old BC is showing early signs of possible HD. I would like to add Glucosamine to his food and read that the appropriate amount for him is 1 tsp. I found a human type of joint relief med that contains Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM and Omega-3 and would like to know if this is okay to give to dogs.

Just want to clarify if these supplements can be purchased at a local pharmacy in human-grade form, or if I'll be financially helping my vet put a new addition onto her house in the Fall.

Thanks for any feedback or suggestions you can provide.
Kate

You can add salmon oil to the food daily for omega 3's, and you can buy ester-C (which is more easily digestible) vitamin E caps, and Glucosamine with chondroitin and MSM from the pharmacy at K-mart (in the 'people vitamin' section). Talk to your vet about how much to give each dog. If she refuses to tell you how much of each you should give, then call around and ask other local vets.


You might also consider joining the

Yahoo Rawfeeding List.

I'm still new to this diet approach. So can some please tell me what part of the chicken is the chicken back? Is it the hind quarters? I've asken one buther and he looked at me like I didnt't know what I was talking about. Also, can you feed a dog turkey necks? Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Emilio

A chicken back is just that - the back. And yes, you can give a dog turkey necks - just be careful that they don't swallow too large pieces and get choked. Also, there isn't a lot of meat on necks, so don't make a habit of feeding them often.

The Yahoo Rawfeeding List has some good advice, as well as the Raw Dog Ranch.

When you cut up a chicken, the back is the part along the spine. It's not particularly meaty, and when you're cutting up poultry for humans you generally use the backs to make stock. They're cheap (sometimes free, if you cultivate a relationship with a butcher). Nothing to do with hindquarters, which is a term more for non-poultry (non-bird) animals.

I'm trying to imagine a butcher who didn't know what chicken backs were, and I'm having trouble; any experienced home cook knows chicken backs, never mind a butcher!

By the way, Emilio, any major change in diet should be gradual. Yes, the dog can survive a sudden and extreme modification, but, just like humans (or any animals), they and their digestive systems can be upset with a big change all at once. Whatever it is you're starting (modified B.A.R.F., maybe?), I believe that a gradual change is much better for the dog. I'd continue with the food he's on for a while, slowly replacing part of it with whatever the new food is until you've made the switch. Compare it to a human who never ate much fruit and suddenly eats the contents of a fruit bowl in one sitting -- the digestive system, even though it needed and wanted fruit, would be overwhelmed (with very unpleasant results) with a change that sudden.

I'm not advocating for or against any particular diet; I'm just recommending a gradual change if you have decided to alter it substantially.

Well, I started raw this morning and everything seemed fine until a few minutes ago so I'm asking for a bit of guidance from those of you who have experience with raw feeding.

My 9 mth/old female Golden ate 2 wings this morning and just vomitted. In it were pieces of an unchewed hot dog, unchewed Nutro (my Beagles brkfast that she ate) and some good sized chicken wing bones.

I'm concerned about the vomitting, though I have heard this is common at the beginning of feeding raw, and will keep an eye on her. Meanwhile, I'm VERY concerned about the size of 2 bones I found in the pile. It looked like she chewed up the rest of the smaller bones okay, but there was a piece about 2 1/2 inches long and another knuckley looking chunk/joint that have me concerned. I would have thought those would have broken down by now, or at least have been a bit more pliable. Also, how in the world would she have pooped those out???

Being new to this, I want to do it right so I may just be overreacting here. I don't want a bone to get stuck and have to rush her to the vet to get it removed...the "ya think you're doing the right thing to keep your dog healthy and suddenly you've almost killed it" scenario.

Since she's only 9mths old, should I smash up the bones for her a bit more? She really did seem to enjoy herself when she was chomping on them this morning. She was the only one out of the three that was even interested in the chicken.

QUOTE from Kate:My 9 mth/old female Golden ate 2 wings this morning and just vomitted. END

QUOTE from earlier response in this thread: By the way, Emilio, any major change in diet should be gradual. Yes, the dog can survive a sudden and extreme modification, but, just like humans (or any animals), they and their digestive systems can be upset with a big change all at once. Whatever it is you're starting (modified B.A.R.F., maybe?), I believe that a gradual change is much better for the dog. I'd continue with the food he's on for a while, slowly replacing part of it with whatever the new food is until you've made the switch. Compare it to a human who never ate much fruit and suddenly eats the contents of a fruit bowl in one sitting -- the digestive system, even though it needed and wanted fruit, would be overwhelmed (with very unpleasant results) with a change that sudden. END

I'm sure others will answer the bone issue, and if no one gets to it I'll be back in an hour or so and will post what I've learned about it.

QUOTE from KATE: My 9 mth/old female Golden ate 2 wings this morning and just vomitted. END

One of the URLs I posted drops you into the middle (the bone part) of the B.A.R.F. instructions instead of at the beginning. These two (below) take you to the start.

GRADUAL diet changes have already been addressed on this thread.
So.........I'm back with some bone info, which you asked about, along with B.A.R.F. prep info in general (with pictures for every step!) from two extremely detailed web sites. I'm not saying that your own version of B.A.R.F. must coincide with theirs at all; I'm just saying that they both give loads of purchase, prep, serving, and storage tips (illustrated). All bone questions I could think of are addressed on both sites.

http://www.touchmoon.com/dotters/raw/index.shtml
http://www.auntjeni.com/barf.htm

Thanks for the info Connie. I read the infomation on both sites and did not see where it really addressed my situation with the chicken wings.

The Touchmoon site only said she chopped them up with a hatchet, but it also showed that they feed leg quarters, which I thought you're not supposed to feed weight-bearing bones so that had me quite a bit puzzled.

The Aunt Jeni site only discussed chicken necks, which I believe those bones are smaller than wings bones.

I have read and printed out the pages from Leerburg regarding their diets for their dogs. I also have read the Raw Dog Food book, njboxers.com site, as well as numerous other materials. They all seem to have their own way of doing things, yet each dog is also quite different in how they handle the food. My approach was to start my dogs off simple, but just giving them the chicken wings to see how they would accept the food and how/if they'd even eat it. I don't think starting out with all the organs, veggie glop, and supplements is necessary right now and actually doesn't address the somewhat-large bone fragment question I had.

Of your information, all I really gathered that was helpful was to chop the bones up with a hatchet into smaller pieces. Will try that tomorrow. I do appreciate your time in helping me with this issue...thanks!
Kate

QUOTE from KATE: Thanks for the info Connie. I read the infomation on both sites and did not see where it really addressed my situation with the chicken wings. END

I have a Chinese cleaver, which works just fine (and so would a heavy 12" chef's knife), but yes..........I do chop up that size bones because they're small enough to swallow whole and large enough to cause trouble once they're down there. That's IMHO only, btw.

The http://www.njboxers.com site DOES address the chicken wing vomiting question, though, in pretty good detail.

QUOTE: My dog just regurgitated part of his chicken wing?  Is this related to chewing (or not chewing)? --- It's not uncommon at all for dogs new to the diet to have trouble digesting the new bones.  Sometimes they might vomit them up (and then continue to eat what they've just regurgitated) and sometimes some of the bone might pass through in the stool.   This is purely related to NOT chewing properly or because the body is not  used to digesting raw foods.  Adding a digestive enzyme during the transitional phase would be most beneficial in cases like this.  Of course, if it really does worry you that much, you can always go for giving larger bones or by grinding in the beginning and then maybe work your dog up to eating bones. By the time he's used to digesting the ground bones, he should be able to handle the whole bones with no issues. END QUOTE from NJBoxers.com.

Also, same site (about chicken vs. other meats), QUOTE: On the raw diets I have read, poultry seems to be the main meat.  Is there a reason I don't see beef as part of this diet? ----- Chicken tends to be cheaper and easier to obtain, plus beef is much fattier and richer.   But as long as you are providing a  variety of meats, feeding a lot of beef shouldn't be a problem. END QUOTE from JNBoxers.com.

I hope this helps.