I would like some opinions on training the dog to detect meth. Our dogs are currently trained for Cocaine, Marijuana, and Heroin. Our lab chemist thinks there is no need to train the dogs on meth because as he states, "You will be able to smell Meth, you don't need the dog". We rarely see meth in our area but we are seeing some come through the area. Also, last week we obtained some meth (28 grams) and Ectasy (28 grams) and set it up in a vehicle and in a wall for about 20 minutes. All of our dogs indicated on both. How is this possible with the dogs never bring exposed to it before? Was it just them indicating on the new smell? I'd like some thoughts and opinions. Thanks.

First off, a lab geek telling you what you or your dog can smell and as a result, suggest what you should and should not train for is crap. Sorry, had to vent. He is a chemist, not a road dog like the rest of us, how could he possibly know what you do and don't need? Pardon the pun but he / she is out their element.

I posed this question some time ago in a different format with ketamine. The explination offered makes particular sense considering the weights you mentioned. Are these "personal use" ( threshold in Az for meth is 9 grams) situations where cross contamination from other sources are likely? When you hid the sources yourself, was it in the original packaging and how long after TOA did you set up the training? Kevin, DFrost, Josh,etc, where are you guys on this one?

Hello:
A lab tech has no place on telling or even suggesting what odors your dog(s) should be trained on. How did they even get into the picture in the first place? On my dept, our dogs are trained to give the aggressive response on the 5 common odors (including meth).
Regards,
Brandon

Some of the Ectasy contains herion? Could this be the case?

Originally posted by Michael Talyor Rivers:
Some of the Ectasy contains herion? Could this be the case? this is what I've heard as well, so it doesn't seem unreasonable that a dog trained on Heroin would hit on some forms of Ecstacy as well.

First, ask the lab tech if he will come to court and testify to your expertise in smelling any quantity of meth and using that as probable cause and what documentation he has to support this. Also ask him if he can define the threshold for which you and the dog are able to identify the odor of meth. He can't answer that one. The only thing that we can be sure of is that the canine nose is far more sensative to most odors than humans are. Given the fact that crooks get better and better at packaging their commoditites this lower threshold is important. So is the dogs ability to distinquish odors among other odors (cover odors) which humans are quite poor at doing.
Second, the possible causes of a dog indicating on the new odors are many.
The dog is inadvertantly conditioned to human odors hidden in their search area.
The simply puts novel odors plus all the usually environmnetal ques together (handler prepared for a search, conducts his/her usual routine, and even possibly in the same area that is often used for training etc.) and manages to put 2+2 together.
Handler providing input (even inadvertantly by knowing where the finds are).
Contamination of the meth by other drugs (how often have you found meth, particularly in user quantities or among local dealers, where marijuana wasn't also in use?).
The dog has inadvertantly learned either cutting agents, packaging materials, or cover odors and added them to their list of substances (doesn't take much for this to happen).
Has the handler ever spent time trying to trick the dog into indicating on novel odors, human scent, cutting agents and packaging material? Something that must be done during routine training to decrease the potential of the dog learning the wrong thing.

I would certainly add meth to the list of drugs that your dog is trained to detect. First off, all statistics from EPIC, HIDTA etc, indicate that if you live east of California, meth is more than likely passing through your area. Meth use today is growing like cocaine use did in the 80's. Meth labs are springing up like wild onions in April. Ecstacy, unless it is added by the manufacturer does not contain herion. It is an analog of an amphetamine however. Anyway. I would certainly add meth to the drugs your dogs detects. As Mr Sheldahl stated, the couriers are very adept at concealing it. My experience is, unless it is a mobile lab, which we have found many, you are not going to smell it. Add it, it can only increase the number of drug cases you make

Just to set you straight. Ecstacy which contains heroin doesn't exist - it's an urban myth. This rumour emerged as a result of several batches of pills having brown specles in them i.e Speckled Doves. These speckles were simply impurities, not H.

Not only that, it's illogical seeing as one's an upper and the other's a downer. It's also too costly and no dealer would go through the time and effort when he can use baking soda or ethedrine instead.

Just my 2 Rupiah....

Like several others have said cross contamination can be the reason why dogs are indicating on odors that they have not been trained on. Ecstasy is MDMA (methyldiethylmethamphetamine). Dogs trained to locate Methamphetamine will hit on Ecstasy as it is a derivative of that drug.